This topic

Why other providers not allowed in my area?

trappedcustomer — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:20:08 GMT

I've got a house in a new built estate and due to some awkward agreement made between BT and the developer (?!, not with me) no other providers are allowed in the area. That wouldn't be the biggest problem but I pay £53 for Fiber 1 (50Mbps download, 10Mbps upload) and other BT customers are allowed to get Fiber 2 (67Mbps) for only £30. But because I'm already a customer the only better package I can get is for £68.

So whilst BT is denying other providers in the area, is using its monopoly to extort current customers. This for sure does not sound legal and I hope is not but I would like to know BT's point of view on this.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

-Richie- — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 20:20:46 GMT

There is no monopoly or exclusive agreement with BT, you live in a new build estate and the developer asked Openreach to install services, Virgin Media have their own network which is why they are not an option.
The technology used would be FTTP (Fibre to the premises), which is the latest, it just happens that of the 600+ communication providers Openreach serve, only a tiny fraction offer FTTP.

That is not a monopoly, that's other providers not moving with the times, there are some but this forum prevents promoting non-BT services, so you'll have to do your own homework or negotiate with BT for a competitive price.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

gg30340 — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 20:32:21 GMT

As has been stated. Openreach offer FTTP to all the UK Internet Providers but if you check who the providers that have chosen to offer FTTP to its customers there are very few and most of the major providers have for some reason chosen not to provide it.

I suspect if it was not for BT offering it you would have no FTTP in your area even although it is available to all the ISPs.

See Openreach's list of provider that have decided to offer it, albeit not in every area.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fttp-providers

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

Starwire — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 07:21:09 GMT

On ‘some’ New Build Sites BT have agreed to bear the full brunt of Network Build Costs to deploy FTTP so as part of the agreement they have exclusivity for the first 12 months, maybe longer in order to make their money back, which is fair enough. Other Businesses make Exclusivity Deals all the time and no one complains.

As said it’s only some New Builds I’ve seen this on, usually Social Housing/Affordable Homes Estates.

I’d hazard a guess BT pay the full cost so the Developer and Local Council and Housing Association can bring costs down themselves.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

CJT80 — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:20:49 GMT

@trappedcustomerwrote:

I've got a house in a new built estate and due to some awkward agreement made between BT and the developer (?!, not with me) no other providers are allowed in the area. That wouldn't be the biggest problem but I pay £53 for Fiber 1 (50Mbps download, 10Mbps upload) and other BT customers are allowed to get Fiber 2 (67Mbps) for only £30. But because I'm already a customer the only better package I can get is for £68.

So whilst BT is denying other providers in the area, is using its monopoly to extort current customers. This for sure does not sound legal and I hope is not but I would like to know BT's point of view on this.

Where did you find that price?

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

iniltous — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 08:20:23 GMT

You are incorrect in so many ways, first ‘BT’ didn’t provide the FTTP network into your new build home Openreach did, Openreach do not have any exclusive deals with BT Consumer anywhere ( they are not allowed to even if they wanted to ), there are more company’s using OR FTTP than just BT.

If you want to use some of the big budget brands, ask they why they don’t use OR FTTP , there is nothing stopping them.

Chances are there was no deal as such between OR and the developer, if others had wanted to install their network at the same time, there was nothing stopping then, OR do not insist on exclusivity, but if other company’s didn’t get into the site , that’s up to them...for what is worth OR provide FTTP to the developer for free, perhaps others don’t make an equally generous offer

Some developers provide their own FTTP (Persimmon and OFNL for one ) and if you lived in one of their homes you would be subject to their monopoly .

If VM are so much cheaper you could ask them why they don’t provide in your area, there is nothing and wasn’t anything stopping them

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

garybs29 — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 08:53:16 GMT

There has been a few reports of this previously, in any case it's the developer who struck the deal so any gripes should really be with them

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

Starwire — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 08:53:31 GMT

No, it is correct. On some New Sites BT do have exclusivity.

I didn’t believe it at first but found out it was true.

Don't forget, the Access Network is not owned by Openreach. It’s still owned by the BT Group. Openreach are merely the Company that build/maintain it for them.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

trappedcustomer — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:43:30 GMT

Prices I took from their respective websites and rounded up. They usually have these ending in .9x

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

trappedcustomer — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:45:12 GMT

Asked other providers before posting this, is not like I just came up with it out of the blue

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

trappedcustomer — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:58:21 GMT

Thank you. TalkTalk is in the list provided so I asked them, the reply was: Londeka at 12:53, Jun 7:
Due to the high demand of services in your area, the exchange is currently full. I would suggest you try again in a few weeks as we are always updating our services

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

iniltous — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 12:28:01 GMT

BT do not have exclusivity, if you have any evidence please post a link to it, I appreciate you work for Openreach and as such perhaps your opinions are relevant, but it the case that Ofcom will not allow any preferential treatment for BT from OR, and a sweetheart deal is nothing but preferential.
If there is any example of BT getting an exclusive period anywhere some proof may be helpful , a link, a report anything, but in the absence of that perhaps we will have to give more credence to the policy OR and BT have to adhere to

As far as the OP, I would guess your conversation went something like, ‘hello, I’d like service from TT, Talk Talk Talk rep, possibly not working in the UK, ‘sorry we cannot offer you service’, you ‘why not ?’ , TT reply irrelevant, the rep probably doesn’t know, so makes something up.

There are currently 5 or 6 company’s that offer service over OR FTTP, it’s really easy to find out who they are, they tend to be more expensive than budget brands..if you want to use a budget brand , you need to ask them when they will offer service, this date is entirely up to them and the fact that they until now haven’t bothered is not because they were not allowed , it’s because they didn’t want to.

The OP seems to me to be typical of the type that complains that the UK doesn’t have the full fibre infrastructure that other country’s enjoy, but given that they have FTTP, then complain that they cannot get a budget supplier , that they could if they were on a copper pair service.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 12:21:08 GMT

The only area I'm aware of where there is a monopoly, it works against BT; namely Kingston upon Hull where Kingston Comms have the monopoly

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

pippincp — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 12:57:05 GMT

@iniltousYou are correct in that Ofcom will not allow OR to give BT preferential treatment. There is nothing wrong however with BT doing a deal with the property developer and then paying Openreach to install the network. There are quite a few devlopers who want/demand to be paid for networks to be installed.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

Starwire — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 17:24:25 GMT

As I said on my original comment, on some New Sites BT so have exclusivity.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

iniltous — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 18:45:15 GMT

Here’s the thing, where is the evidence OR have installed any network that they don’t control , if they did commissions, the one company they couldn’t do it for would be BT Consumer , the obvious regulatory hurdles would mean that it wouldn’t be worth the effort , OR are mandated to offer wholesale access to networks they control, BT Consumer don’t own any public networks.

Every now and then, a poster insists there is or was an exclusive period that BT Consumer were supposedly given, but when asked , no evidence is ever produced , it’s always anecdotal, never the slightest scintilla of evidence were produced.

If BT did have exclusivity it would fly in the face of the supposed even handed approach OR have to take and BT’s competitors would have BT and OR in court pretty quickly if such an arrangement were in place with Ofcoms consent, so if this exclusivity did exist why were Sky and TT so relaxed about it, considering they both complained that the OR legal separation and undertakings from BT didn’t go far enough , any deal like the ones that supposedly were done would show these undertakings were toothless, OR is over 10 years old,

I’ve no doubt those that insist that BT did have exclusivity genuinely believe it , but probably need to consider if the source they heard it from is reliable , I know of people in new builds that use BT, because the builder /delevoper told them that ‘BT’ had provided the FTTP infrastructure, but that is because in many minds there is no difference between BT and OR, one of the contributors on here is obviously an Openreach employee , but probably gets called a BT engineer several times a day.

I can see why customers, or businesses may still see no distinction between BT and OR , even after removal of BT from OR uniforms and vehicles, and this may well lead to the misrepresentation of OR as being BT, added to the fact that the bigger competitors don’t currently offer service over OR FTTP, potential customers of those company’s probably get told any old pony when asked why can’t I get your broadband at this address, those company’s obviously have a vested interest in portraying themselves as being disadvantaged

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

Starwire — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 18:58:17 GMT

You can argue it until you’re blue in the face but it doesn’t change the fact that on some New Sites BT had exclusivity. I don’t know the exact ins and outs as to how and why they got it. I’m not privy to what’s said between the BT Group and the Developers behind closed doors or have access to any paperwork but that doesn’t make it any less true.

Look, you clearly do your homework and know a lot more than most but I’ve corrected you on more than once on previous posts, which proves you’re not always right.

Theres no shame in getting things wrong, I’ve done it many a time myself. Just take it on the chin and learn from it for next time.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

j0hn83 — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 05:16:39 GMT

Old thread but it really needs correcting.

Reading up on this subject as my mum is purchasing a new home and the developer have informed her BT have exclusive rights on the site for 2 years. I tell her they mean OpenReach and she can pick other providers.

We were down viewing the property yesterday. There's an ONT already in situ ready for service to be ordered.

I'm sitting in the showroom with the sales staff who again insist BT have an exclusive deal.
She insists repeatedly this point and that she's been part of over a dozen developments with this deal in place and every single customer must sign up to BT on all these developments.
She tells this to every buyer.

That can't be right I'm thinking, it's against OFCOM's preferential treatment rules for starters.
I do a quick Google search and this thread comes up 1st. I bookmarked it.

A quick availability search on Cerberus's website and they are available. I show the sales woman.
She insists it's a mistake.
I check IDNET, AAISP, Zen and Aquiss.
All are available. Zen sales staff even say they can activate the ONT within 48 hours.

The very stubborn sales lady insists it's a mistake. So much so she goes away to call the developments OpenReach new builds representative.
15 minutes later she returns with a dejected look on her face.

"Oh, you're right. It's OpenReach who have exclusive rights for 2 years."

So I'm just off work and figured I'd reply to this thread I'd bookmarked yesterday.

Iniltous is bang on correct.

BT do not have ANY exclusive deals on ANY developments in the UK. Not a single 1.

I'm that confident in this that if anyone can provide me with a single postcode where BT is the ONLY provider available on the OpenReach network as part of an exclusive deal on a new build development then i will donate £100 to a charity of their choosing and will provide a screenshot of the donation here.

It can't happen. It's not allowed to happen.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

Starwire — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 10:25:01 GMT

Again, there were some sites where BT had exclusivity. Why they had it I could never get a straight answer on but for some reason they had it.

There were two sites that I know of in the East of England area, can’t be more specific as that might give me away, which I’m sure BT/Openreach would love.

Re: Why other providers not allowed in my area?

j0hn83 — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:35:39 GMT

Nope.

Never ever happened.

BT aren't even an OpenReach customer.

BT buy from BT Wholesale. BT Wholesale buy from OpenReach.

How could BT buy exclusivity from someone they don't do business with?

You're suggesting that OpenReach have given an exclusive deal to BT Wholesale.

BT Wholesale have then given an exclusive deal to BT.

Neither is allowed to happen. Neither has happened.

Any address that can order BT can also order from other BT Wholesale ISP's.

This myth is simply a result of BT being the only major broadband provider to sell OpenReach FTTP for a long time.

Developer tells the buyer only BT is available for 2 years. They mean OpenReach. Their contract is with British Telecommunications plc.

Customer checks all the providers they know of and only BT can provide FTTP.

The myth is born. Then people double down on the myth and claim "it happened once but I can't tell you where".

It never happened, on any site, anywhere in the UK.

The reality is all the BT Wholesale ISP's i mentioned above are available where BT is available.

Even if BT were to pay for an NGA FTTP build it would be available to any ISP or Wholesale provider as soon as it was activated.

OpenReach is a regulated open wholesale network provider. Their NGA products and services are available to over 650+ providers in all locations with no exclusivity or preferential treatment. They aren't allowed exclusivity deals period.

Not only do BT never have exclusivity, OpenReach usually don't either.

It's often simply that they are the only provider the developer did a deal with.

Other operators like Virgin being locked out can be nothing more than they can't dig up the pavement for 2 years because of things like the The New Roads and Street Works Act (NRSWA).

£1,000 to a charity of anyone's choice if they can name a single postcode where BT have exclusivity on a new build site.

No?

Cos it didn't happen.

Out of interest, could i order BT Business on this mythical site?