This topic

Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:32:18 GMT

I'm migrating to BT Fibre 2 on 24th June, everything seems to be going smoothly so far. The only concern I have is that I have heard nothing from my old ADSL ISP. Landline and ISP are currently supplied by seperate companies, and I heard from the landline supplier on the same day as I placed the BT order, and the "Sorry you are leaving" letter followed shortly after.

I understand that the procedure should be automatic, but what exactly is the process by which the old ISP is notified of the switch? From what I have read, the system should automatically notify them and start the notice period (which I believe is 30 days). If they argue that they have not been notified, can that be proven?

Should I contact them to make sure they know what's happening? I have held back, as I don't want to confuse matters in case they decide to put a cease order on the service.

Paul

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

iniltous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:05:36 GMT

Your current set up ( separate line rental and broadband company’s ) is a SMPF ( shared metallic path facility ) and is not very common these days , strictly speaking , ADSL broadband cannot exist without a hosting line, so the fact that the line rental provider has acknowledged the migration, by default the broadband will also cease.

With a ‘normal’ migration it’s not a good idea to call the company you are leaving as it may mess up the migration, but in your case calling the ISP and checking that they are aware of your intentions cannot hurt, TBH the only potential problem I would foresee is how much notice has to be served (14 days or 30 days ) and if any ETC apply, line rental as a migration 10-14 days , separate ADSL company may interpret the rules as a 30 day notice required , so may ‘fine’ you the difference as an ETC.
There was a post on this forum a little while ago , another SMPF customer like yourself , and if I remember correctly, questioning the migration process when three company’s were involved, you could try searching for that post, I think they got two notifications, but cannot be sure

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:32:09 GMT

Thanks for the reply @iniltous . There's no LLU involved, if that's what I'm understanding by SMPF.

We are on a Market A exchange with no LLU suppliers at all. The existing landline is supplied by TalkTalk via a BT WLR product, a legacy of them taking over our old supplier Onetel years ago, and the ADSL is from a small ISP via BTWholesale.

I don't think there should be any problem with the actual transfer, but it would be helpful if I could be sure that the ISP has been notified, if only for billing purposes. I have a feeling their notice period is 30 days, so I am am expecting some overlapping billing - but I would rather it be two weeks rather than four.

I am trying to avoid complicating matters by not contacting them. After all, I shouldn't really have to.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

licquorice — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:22:05 GMT

No, LLU or not is irrelevant. It is the fact that 2 separate companies are providing service on the same metallic path, i.e Talk Talk and the small ISP.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:53:08 GMT

Thanks for that info, my mistake.

I'm sure I can remember LLU arrangements being described as SMPF in the past, it seems that with Openreach now at arms length, things have changed? Even BT/Openreach WLR and BTWholesale ADSL IPStream (now WBC?) combinations are now regarded as SMPF. Lots of stuff seems to have changed.

I didn't name the old ISP just to save confusion, it is a legacy product from Eclipse Internet, now part of KCOM. They no longer supply home broadband, but kept on existing customers. And no, I'm not in Hull!

So the question is, having received only one notification, should I give Eclipse a prod, or let sleeping dogs lie?

Also, can anyone tell me the name of the system that would be used to inform Eclipse of the migration, in case I do contact them?

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

iniltous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:23:42 GMT

MPF , metallic path facility , or full LLU , the non BT provider provides all services, where as SMPF is where generally a BTw provider provides the ‘dialtone’ the broadband part of a SMPF could be another company’s broadband kit or also a BTw broadband connection, the main factor being the dialtone is provided from the ‘BT’ local exchange.....the bigger players in the market that used SMPF in the past , have long since moved to MPF, and tried to move their customers onto their own network completely, some took the decision to leave legacy customers as they were, if they didn’t want to change , some sold their off net customers to someone else, but stopped selling SMPF.

The fact that you pay 2 bills indicates SMPF, even if everything is BTw because it’s a market 1 exchange with no LLU provider equipment , ( LLU as a term encompasses both MPF and SMPF )

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:33:38 GMT

@iniltouswrote:
The fact that you pay 2 bills indicates SMPF, even if everything is BTw because it’s a market 1 exchange with no LLU provider equipment , ( LLU as a term encompasses both MPF and SMPF )

Yes, I understand that now, thanks for the useful explanations.

If it comes to having to nudge Eclipse (old ISP), do you know what the online system is called that they would have received notification of the migration?

Slightly concerned that they will deny all knowledge of what's going on...

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 23:00:26 GMT

I have been chatting to few members on thinkbroadband forum, concensus seems to be that contacting the losing ISP has more potential to cause problems than help. They advised that I should contact BT and explain that I hadn't heard from my old ISP.

However, it did flag up something else. Although I am a week away from activation, when I check on

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com

there are no open orders showing on my line. Is that normal?

Just to recap, I have had a "Sorry you are leaving" email and letter from my old landline provider, but nothing at all from my old ISP.

Would it be possible for a moderator on here look into my order, just to make sure there's nothing wrong that could cause problems next week?

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

licquorice — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 07:08:16 GMT

The mods are extremely busy at the moment and only intervene when all normal channels have failed in any case. I'm not sure that checking on something that may or may not be a problem is the best use of their valuable time.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

iniltous — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:55:17 GMT

Making an assumption that your ‘fibre’ is FTTC, its unclear why the BTw site doesn’t show any open orders , there must be the one that generated the ‘ sorry to see you go ‘ from TT, and presumably at least two orders should exist , a stop or stop renumber ( TT) and a start or start renumber (BT) ( depending on if the phone number you have currently is being kept )

It’s not necessarily the case that ‘BT’ could tell you much about orders for the other company’s involved , I would think that although it’s a common ordering system, it’s unlikely that an individual company can snoop on another company’s orders...but they could ( presumably) tell you if the BT order is still on track, but there is no reason to suspect it isn’t.
As already stated, the chances are the only potential issue is if Eclipse haven’t either been notified or have not acknowledged your ‘cease’ of their services , and they continue to bill you even after the physical disconnection ,or they insist on more notice than the landline , calling them to check I would suggest is low risk , but if risk adverse , wait until BT are suppling service then call .
My suspicion is that you probably should have received something as the ‘system’ you would think, takes into account a situation where a SMPF customer may change the broadband provider but keep the landline provider, if the aim is to stop all slamming , then Eclipse would presumably want the opportunity to stop the change over, by you responding to their ‘sorry to see you go’ communication, but that may make you think by calling them , it gives them a reason to get involved, and maybe mess up the migration.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:04:12 GMT

@licquorice I absolutely appreciate the current situation, but I do find the absence of any open orders on broadbandchecker more than a bit concerning. Any reassurance that this is entirely normal would be helpful.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:12:56 GMT

Thanks @iniltous for your detailed reply.

Yes, I am going from ADSL to FTTC. BT confirmed a firm changeover date by text the day after order. I have just checked the BTWholesale broadbandchecker again, and there are still no open orders showing, 7 days to activation. As you say though, something must have been processed to trigger the correct contact from TT.

If I was convinced that everything would go through okay, I'm definitely inclined to let things take their course and argue the billing / notice toss with Eclipse afterwards, I don't want to upset the process. It's just the total absence of open orders showing on the checker that's a bit concerning.

What's the chances that this is a checker problem, rather than the actual process? Is it normally accurate?

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

iniltous — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 18:40:41 GMT

Are you keeping the same phone number ?, if so the only real physical work is likely to be in the FTTC cabinet, generally the EN ( the part of the exchange that delivers your dialtone ) won’t change, the connection from it, to the ADSL In port and ADSL Out port to the MDF remains as it is now ( the ADSL jumpering is left in situ and recorded as LIJ , left in jumpers ) the orders are in the main nothing more that administrative, a stop order for company A and start order for company B, a linked request for connection in the VDSL cab may not involve BTw as such .
I think I would consider calling BT to check , in the unlikely event that Eclipse , instead of responding to the BTw message that the host line was altering by saying ‘sorry to see you leave’ they arbitrarily indicated that the order is to be cancelled ( which is what happens in a slamming case, you get the ‘sorry’ comms, and call and say If never asked for this) , so a mechanism does exist for them to cancel, that could also explain why no orders exist on the Btw checker, if they were cancelled by Eclipse.
Hopefully that won’t be the case and everthing is on track but if it has been messed up by Eclipse at least you can get the ball rolling again

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 19:28:12 GMT

Thanks again for the reply, much appreciated.

Yes, I'm keeping the same number - and the same one I had with BT 20 years ago.

I do hope Eclipse haven't thrown a spanner in the works. According to the BT order tracker, everything is still go, so I don't know.

I understand that telephone CS is very busy at the moment, that's one of the reasons I've held off contacting them. Would chat be able to help with this, do you think?

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

iniltous — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:17:42 GMT

AFAIK, ‘chat’ should be able to access the same info as a CSR who answers calls.
It wouldn’t have occurred to me to check the BTw site for open orders, so if I were in your shoes I would have assumed everything was progressing OK , based on the TT response, possibly in blissful ignorance.
Just to satisfy your curiosity , checking with BT may be worthwhile, or even with Eclipse.
Because the process for SMPF isn’t discussed that widely, Eclipse could argue that you needed to give them notice yourself , and the ‘gaining provider led’ process that stipulates you don’t need to contact the old provider , is only for MPF , although that would seem against the spirit of the process.
I have changed my own mind, with regard to your issue, from thinking ‘No need to worry’ to ‘Perhaps it’s has gone wrong’ , certainly enough reason to do what is normally best avoided, and contact them and check.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:19:22 GMT

@iniltouswrote:
It wouldn’t have occurred to me to check the BTw site for open orders, so if I were in your shoes I would have assumed everything was progressing OK , based on the TT response, possibly in blissful ignorance.
Just to satisfy your curiosity , checking with BT may be worthwhile, or even with Eclipse.

I don't think many retail customers would know about the BTw site, but I've found it useful in the past.

I had another "Goodbye" letter from TT in the post this morning, so they must still think it's going ahead.

I've resisted contacting Eclipse, for fear they could cause further problems. SMPF or not, I don't believe I should need to contact them - they should be notified of the switch by OR, the same as TT. I'll give BT chat a try, see if they can tell me anything.

I did ask if a mod here might be able to help earlier, given that the message on the home page tells you to come here first, but I was more or less told that I shouldn't be wasting their time.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:06:04 GMT

I managed to get through on chat, they brought up the order details and although were very reassuring, they didn't address the points about the lack of contact from Eclipse, or the BTw checker. They did say that there was absolutely no problem with the order and that it will definitely go through as planned.

I don't know how deeply they actually looked into it, but they only volunteered the VOL order number I already had.

After all this, I'm going to be pretty fed up if it goes wrong next Wednesday.

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

iniltous — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:45:20 GMT

I think the BT Rep probably did all they could as far as checking, when you consider this process that Ofcom imposed, it never ceases to amaze me that most of the time it works....in your case 5 company’s involved , if you include BTw, and Openreach, 1 point of contact, and the possibility that either of the 2 company’s losing you as a customer can cancel the entire thing, by using a process designed to safeguard you against being moved against your will.....hopefully things will be OK ( BT would presumably have spotted if their order had been cancelled by others ) , so the ‘only’ issue may be if Eclipse continue to bill you, and given they haven’t acknowledged your leaving ,that could be the case, but If that happens, it should be resolvable after the event....anyway good luck

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:54:09 GMT

@iniltouswrote:
hopefully things will be OK ( BT would presumably have spotted if their order had been cancelled by others ) , so the ‘only’ issue may be if Eclipse continue to bill you, and given they haven’t acknowledged your leaving ,that could be the case, but If that happens, it should be resolvable after the event....anyway good luck

You would think that BT would be notified if the broadband order was cancelled.

The billing issues with Eclipse I can deal with, I would sooner sort that out that the whole thing fail.

All fingers crossed, anyway 😉

Re: Moving to BT Fibre

locknut — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 22:37:52 GMT

Chatting to a few members over on TBB forum, it's clear from their experiences that you don't always see open orders on the BTw checker.

I'm much more confident about all this now, and hopefully my next post on here will be on Wednesday confirming everything is working. 😎