This topic

Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:48:04 GMT

At the moment I have FTTP to my house in Northern Ireland. This was installed about a year ago and since then they have increased my speed to around 115mbps. I have a Landline which I am paying around £270 a year (because I thought you needed a Land Line to get Broadband). It's a landline I NEVER ever use. Can I cancel that landline and still have Fibre Broadband? Plus if I have a contract of 18 months (which I think is only for the Broadband) will they charge me for cancelling my Telephone Line?

On a side issue does anyone know what is the cost of coming out of a contract (of 18 months for the Broadband Package) and what physically is done when you cancel a FTTP package?.....do they come and remove the Fibre Optic cable from the House? or do they leave it there so that I can get another package from another Fibre Provider?

At the moment I am paying around £70 a month for Fibre Broadband and Phone line (that I don't use)......which I think is very expensive and I thought if I can remove the phone line then I could save around £20 a month.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

licquorice — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:55:35 GMT

At the moment you can't have broadband without a phone service even if the broadband is delivered by FTTP.

If you cancel your contract the fibre will remain.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:10:40 GMT

So if the Fibre remains then no other provider can use it? So in effect, there is no way to reduce this cost of £70 because no matter what provider I go to I need a Landline? Thanks for your help. What I don't understand is if you don't use the landline (which I think is a separate cable going into my house why I have to pay for it). To my simple uneducated mind I appear to be paying for equipment I don't use but maybe I have got that wrong and the telephone line is connected to the Fibre Optic cable in a cabinet or some other Openreach equipment further down the line. Just interested to know what is going on...maybe someone can enlighten me or give me a link to a website that explains this in simple layman terms.
Thanks

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

pippincp — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:30:57 GMT

You should only have one contract as Internet contracts inclues any landline rental if it is necessary for providing the service even if it is only for billing purposes.

Give the FTTP team a ring and discuss it with them. 0800 587 4787

From OFCOM

"Since 2016, broadband companies can no longer advertise broadband and line-rental costs separately. Instead, they have to show the full, inclusive cost of taking out a broadband contract. This reflects the fact that line rental is part of the cost of providing broadband. However, some companies still separate this out in their bills."

FTTP still falls within that ruling. You may find that it already is included but separated out in the bill.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

garybs29 — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:34:18 GMT

Also to make it clear the line rental charge you want to drop doesn't cover just the phone line it also covers rental of the line used to deliver the broadband as well

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:31:39 GMT

so in laymans terms in paying for the landline but I am paying for the rental of the FTTP line....so the two go hand in hand to pay for the build up of the distribution of the Fibre network. Therefore no landline no Fibre. So I am stuck with the £70....the only way to reduce the costs is either find a Provider can Give me Fibre for less than £55 or a provider that can equal that price but can give me faster speeds than 115mbps. I suspect that no other provider will be able to beat that other than Virgin (but I will have nothing to do with them because of previous bad experience)....so it looks like I am stuck. Maybe it is better to stay with the devil you know than go to a devil I don't know.
Thanks again

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

pippincp — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:55:17 GMT

The copper circuit is being retired from 2025 but don't expect a reduction even then.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

iniltous — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:03:52 GMT

Virgin Media have the option of ‘broadband’ without (phone ) line rental , but it’s near enough the same price as line and broadband, it’s entirely possible that in the near future ‘OR’ based broadband will be available without having to take a phone service , but it’s naive to think it will be significantly cheaper than phone & broadband, possibly one or two £ per month,
At the present time you have to have a phone service, it can be over the fibre or over a copper pair, but even if the copper pair is not used , the ‘line rental’ just becomes the charge for the fibre rather than fibre and copper, if you lived in a new build , there wouldn’t be a copper pair provided but the price is the same , so in some way , you are getting a copper pair and fibre for the same price as someone else who gets a fibre only.
If you want to pay less , and are out of a minimum term you obviously could try to negotiate a better deal, change provider or reduce the speed of the package you are on.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 23:06:16 GMT

Thanks, that is the most honest I have received all day. I totally understand what you are saying. I don't think I will be able to reduce the price but I do think I can get a better deal....when I say that I think I should be able to get a much faster Fibre speed for the price I am paying of £70 for 115 Mbps.

On a side issue how much would it cost to come out of a contract because I think I have about 8 months left if my existing contract

Thanks again for your honest and detailed help

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

iniltous — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 07:23:07 GMT

What you pay seems quite a bit higher than current prices, presumably you are on Full Fibre 100, its actually a 150Mb service, because of ASA rules they call it 100 as that’s it’s minimum speed but with FTTP your connection is 150Mb, throughput may vary hence calling it 100, that’s currently £40 on a 24 month minimum ( no split LR/BB it’s just the price ), so as you are paying so much more , you may be taking more service , inclusive calls , TV, TV Sport, Mobile ?
As far as ending early, generally paying ETC may only a little less than if you continued ( 8x£70) so given that whoever you joint would also have a minimum term, arguably they would have to be significantly cheaper to justify paying ETC up front just to get out of your current deal and join them , assuming the new provider was 24 months minimum, they would have to be around £23/month cheaper to compensate for the £500 ETC, to make the maths stack up.
The first thing to do ( to make a fair comparison) is include all services , if you don’t want them, see if they can be removed.
If it were myself, I would see if ‘BT’ will renegotiate, accepting this will be restarting the minimum term , TBH, the chances of getting a cheaper FTTP deal off someone else is slim, especially taking the £23 into account, you could potentially get basic FTTP for £70-23, £47, but BT is £40 for that, I’m assuming you do get more than broadband for your £70, even it you don’t want or use the extras.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:27:10 GMT

Iniltous, thanks for that. The breakdown of my cost are the following:-
Broadband - £54.99 - Fibre 100 with Halo 2
Line Rental - £19.99 - with using Line saver
Total - £74.99
I get around 115mpbs on average it very rarely goes above that. I don't think I would interested in breaking my contract with those ETC costs involved but surely I could get a better deal when the contract ends at maybe getting more speed for the same price. No I don't have TV or TV Sport but I do have mobile which is another £39 (but that is a family plan of three mobiles and I haven't included that £39 extra in my costs. But if I did that would be over a £110 a month...quite a bit of money I'm paying out to BT no matter which way you look at it. Do you see any savings to be gained in any of those costs?....I don't, unless I take a slower package which I don't want to do

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

garybs29 — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:48:41 GMT

Do you have 2 lines or something? The 54.99 should include line rental as well

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:53:08 GMT

No....but I agree with your assumption as I have just been looking at their deals and their Full Fibre 300 with Halo 2 is £35 a month with Landline rental on top of that.....which is roughly what I'm paying now with slower speeds. Would you agree?

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:57:01 GMT

oh and I just checked my wireless speed no and it is roughly 90mbps....which I know can vary but it's definitely never near the 150mbps quoted but I also know that would be the ultimate speed if I had ethernet at the router and I suppose I probably would be getting near to that speed if I was to do it

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:09:08 GMT

Sorry, guys I have just been looking at my bill and it appears the way the bill is laid out I have been reading it wrongly. My fault but honestly it is so confusing the way this bill is set out

They say that the £54.99 includes the line rental and then later on down the page they take that £19.99 off

So you are correct it is £35 a month and then on top of that is the £19.99......but I have seen that for that same money I could get an increase in speed to the Fibre 300. What do you think?

And again sorry for the confusion

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

iniltous — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:20:55 GMT

I think you still are misunderstanding the way ‘broadband’ is marketed, if Fibre 100 is £40 ( that’s the current price on BT.COM) thats it, it’s the total you pay, no plus line rental, it’s included....you still seem to think there is more to add, there isn’t.
If you pay for Halo 2 with Fibre 100, the £54.99 includes LR, if you pay separately another amount you are being incorrectly charged.....if you have a line rental saver, it complicates the bill, because you have paid for 12 months in advance the (arbitrary) LR amount, so there should be adjustments on the bill to take this into account, but you certainly shouldn’t be paying LR twice.

As far as FTTP is concerned, it’s a totally different way of ‘syncing’ up, with a rate adaptive system like ADSL or VDSL (FTTC) distance is the main factor in the speed you get, you could be on an system that can theoretically deliver 80Mb, but on a longer lines you don’t get that, the rate is negotiated ( rate adaptive) to suit your line conditions, with FTTP, there is no negotiation as there is effectively no distance related losses, you pay for 150 Mb, your speed is set as that ( so in basic terms you are sync’d at 150 Mb) the advertising authority demand that the speed advertised has to be speed you get , not sync speed, at peak times , and that at least 50% of the customers on that product get it, that’s why it’s called Fibre 100, you are going to get at least 100 Mb, but in reality better, but any testing has to be ‘wired’, not a WiFi device.

I think you need to speak to BT, it’s possible that your plan has been set up wrong and you are being double charged the LR element, or it’s possible the bill , which are not the easiest things in the world to understand, has credits added to balance out the LRS payment...if you are being charged an extra £20 for line rental when the £54.99 includes LR, then obviously you should be refunded any overpayment and your bill adjusted so you don’t continue to over pay

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:47:09 GMT

iniltous, you are totally correct I am reading that bill wrongly....the way they have that bill set out is totally confusing.....it is further down the bill that they take the £19.99 off
Sorry for that misinformation.

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

iniltous — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:11:04 GMT

TBH, although rarely look at my bill detail , the last time I did , it wasn’t the easiest thing to decipher, but at least you know now what the costs are,

looking ahead , with the current ( list ) price, you are paying around £15 more than necessary, for the Halo element of the deal, that may be something , if you at some point decide you could do without , you presumably could give this up to reduce the total amount , or IMHO, when time for renewal ( in 8 months ) you presumably could negotiate.

I wasn’t aware of the difference between Halo 1 and 2 , but it seems you can get a BT ( not OR ?) visit to sort out your home network on Halo 2, if your WiFi speeds are not what you expected, perhaps you could arrange one of the visits included in H2 , to see if wireless performance can be improved

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

Lordsnooty — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:26:45 GMT

Oh, are saying I can get rid of the Halo part of the deal? It appears that for the same price as I am paying now £35 a month I can get the Fibre 300 and get faster speeds....do you not think that would be worth going for because I am paying that already? What do you think?
Thanks again for being so helpful, it is much appreciated

Re: Do I need a Landline if I have FTTP

iniltous — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:08:09 GMT

Isn’t it the case you are ‘only’ paying £35 because of LRS ( you paid £216 upfront ?) , so it’s really £55 including H2, you probably couldn’t drop the Halo until the end of the minimum term ( 8 months )

I only checked the Fibre 100 price to compare the new customer price to what you pay, I don’t know the price of Fibre 300, if the list price of F100 is £40, it would be odd if F300 is less, ( that’s list price , negotiations can sometimes get discounts )

TBH, it’s quite possible that for the same monthly fee , you could get a speed upgrade , wether that would be available now ( whilst you have 8 months left of your current deal) or could be negotiable now , I don’t know , you could always try contacting them, but you probably would be in a better position to haggle closer to the end of your current deal .

I wasn’t suggesting Halo not worth keeping , I just assumed it was a reduction in price you wanted to achieve, but if the price now you know the bill breakdown is fine, the Halo of value to you, then perhaps when negotiating, you state the price is OK, but a little more speed would be good, TBH at a wholesale level giving more bandwidth for committing to a longer term, may be good for both party’s