This topic

A Few FTTP ONT Queries

ChunkyTheCurmudgeon — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:41:51 GMT

Thinking of having FTTP installed and I want to get everything ready in advance so I get a nice, clean job with everything where I want it. So can anyone tell me:

The fibre ONT has a socket for wired phone(s). What is the maximum REN it will accept? Is it still 4 as with a copper line?
Am I safe to assume that there is no longer any need for a BT master socket - all the internal wiring is now plain, secondary sockets daisy chained together?
Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the CSP box that goes on the outside wall and if possible, the pitch of the mounting screws and the the relationship to the hole through the wall to the ONT? A template would be even better, if anyone has one.
For the forseeable future, are BT continuing to install the Huawei ONT and BBU in a combined box, or are they rushing to a different provider and design?
I have an existing 54mm duct with copper from the cabinet (FTTC). Is the fibre blown through this duct, or is it pulled through with the copper? Is the old copper left in the duct?
I want to change the location of of the incoming point when the fibre goes in. If I buy my own BT duct, bends, etc. and get everything dug in and ready in adavnce (next to the old duct), will this upset the engineer when he turns up or make his dy?

Many thnaks, Ian

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

ChunkyTheCurmudgeon — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:48:02 GMT

Oh, yeah, I forgot #7 - Can I bring the duct up within the house, or does it have to be connected externally, where it could be damaged or cut by some unscrupulous individual?

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

pippincp — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 22:05:02 GMT

I think I'll leave this to @Starwire to answer. I'll tell him to put his tinfoil hat on as well.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

Starwire — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 06:09:43 GMT

1. The ONT no longer comes with a phone socket, especially the Nokia one. Some Huawei ones do my Openreach are getting rid of the FVA Service anyway and you’ll either retain your voice service via Copper or be moved onto VOiP.

2. Answered in Q1.

3. CSP is gray as standard. It’s about 7 or 8 inches tall, 5 or 6 inches wide and about an inch deep. Why the fudge you want to know what screws it uses is beyond me?!?!

4. Openreach don’t fit BBU’s anymore.

5. if it’s blown Fibre then it’s blown if it’s Connectorised then it’s pulled.

6. Please don’t messing around with the Openreach Duct Network.

7. No it’s stays outside. You must live in a nice area if your main concern is someone’s going to damage it.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

ChunkyTheCurmudgeon — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 10:19:51 GMT

Thanks for the replies Starwire. By way of further explanation and query:

If they are no longer installing the combined box of ONT and BBU (HG8110H-20 GPON as per the BT website), what ARE they installing and what are the dimensions and critical screw fastening points?

Is there any link to what they ARE installing which has some technical details I can use?

I didn't ask about screws, I asked about screw positions. I'm about to have the exterior of the house re-rendered in some of that fancy stuff you always see on Grand Designs. I want to make sure that

a) there is room for the CSP where I want it to go ... and ....

b) if I can get the hole dimensions beforehand I can pre-drill them so that somebody with a big SDS and another 7 installs to do that day doesn't hurt my render at over twenty quid a square meter.

If they don't fit BBUs, what happens to my phone connection when the power goes off (as it does regularly here, since we are in a group of 12 houses supplied by lines across a field)? Even if it's VoIP, it needs power to call for an ambulance when I fall and dislocate my shoulder (again).

Your answer to 5 is technically 100% accurate but in practical terms tells me nothing. Sorry.

No plan to touch the duct network, see original question. I was planning to lay pre-prepared duct work adjacent to the existing, just the same as I would be putting in duct work if I was doing a self-build. I still need to know if this is approved or frowned upon. More importantly, if I don't do it is an installation engineer going to put in an extra 3m or so of new duct? At no additional cost?

Damage is not anywhere close to my main concern. However, if I was planning to sneak up in the middle of the night to pinch my Aston Martin, I'd start off by cutting the network connection for cameras to the security company. Also, a big expanse of expensive, self-coloured, monocouche render doesn't look so great with a grey CSP box and half a meter if BT duct capping planted on it. Duct into the house is preferable.

All I'm looking to do here is get everything prepared in advance, for cable entries to go exactly where I want them, visible stuff exactly where I want it, internal phone wiring and RJ45 sockets for the network exactly where I want them and a finished job that looks like it was done by a professional, not an ape. That's not to denigrate any Openreach engineer, but if you saw what I'm replacing you'd think that Ray Charles installed it.

Of course, al of this would be much easier if I had the option to speak to an Openreach engineer prior to placing an order but the only way mere mortals can make contact is via a seance. It's easier to get in touch with Lord Lucan.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

pippincp — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 13:20:16 GMT

You will be able to liase with the install engineer on his arrival and most will try to meet your needs unless it would cause a problem. They will advise though.

The install is free even if they have to dig up from the pole to your property. It just means the install will be delayed until that is completed.

I fail to see how drilling a couple of holes would affect your fancy rendering, if it does it's not fancy enough.

There is no BBU suppied now, if you want a back up, get your own.

You have a choice of 2 colours of CSP, grey or grey. Get some paint if you want it another colour.

There may be a valid reason for the cable entry not to go where you want it, if so the engineer will tell you why. Like it or lump it or cancel.

Any internal wiring from the ONT is your responsibility not Openreaches.

Here is an idea of the ONT being fitted now.

Please note, I do not work for BT or Openreach. All comments are my own and do not reflect any policy of either company. I just tell it how it is.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

ChunkyTheCurmudgeon — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:49:43 GMT

That ONT image appears to have a Tel port. That's different to the previous reply. Who's right?

Yes, I know the CSP is grey. See previous post.

Yes, I know internal wiring is my responsibility, that's what I'm trying to prepare for. See previous post.

I've done some liaising with installation engineers in the past. Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt. One engineer's valid reason for not accommodating a preference is is someone else's CBA (refer to Urban Dictionary for definition). See previous post w.r.t. another 7 installs to do same day.

Sadly, I'm not surprised that BT still have all the combined ONT/BBU info on website (e.g. https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/full-fibre/how-is-full-fibre-installed) and in the more detailed deployment manuals and Openreach developer manuals, only to then find that BBU is no longer supplied.

It's just a pity that no-one could give me the detailed info on what they are actually installing today, rather than making sarky comments about my objectives. Clue - is it the Nokia modem, does it have a model number, is Hauwei now personae non gratae? See previous post.

I fail to see why people can't just read a question and either answer it or else wind their neck in, move on and not bother with the judgements and spurious comments. As you, I just say it as it is.

p.s the CSP is in fact also available in white, although to the best of my knowledge the ugly capping is still either grey or grey.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

Starwire — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 17:14:13 GMT

The older CSP’s used for the Blown Fibre Tubing came in a choice of White/Grey/Brown but Openreach has stopped using them in favour of just on CSP, which is the new bigger grey one.

The Engineer may have an older one but probably not as Openreach stopped using them some time ago.

Ref to the ONT having a TELE Port, that is for Openreaches Fibre Voice Access Service only, which they are stopping very soon. They are using up their existing stock of Huawei ONT’s that have a TELE Port but the new ones won’t have one and the Nokia ONT’s don’t have one at all.

I’ve been told BT are going to supply BBU’s to those that need them on their VOiP Service, I’ve not actually seen one yet though.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

converse420 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:29:12 GMT

I don't have much to have to the other comments here which completely mirror my recent experience, but I have to say that I'm on my third FTTP install since 2010(ish), and I've always been really impressed with the way Openreach have thoughtfully and logically evolved their install process over time (my latest install in July has the ONT as pictured in the image). My engineer was open to discussion about where the fibre cable entered, but in the end I elected to have the ONT at the normal point of entry for my previous copper cables and then run ethernet cables internally between the ONT and my BT SmartHub which was placed for best WiFi signal, (also, my thinking was much like you yours, I didn't want 20 feet of easily vandalised fibre cable running down the outside of my house, especially with my priceless Vauxhall Viva parked on the drive with its keys in the dish on the dresser right by the front door 🙂

Only other advice I can add is to provide your Openreach engineer lots of tea and nice biscuits (Jamie Dodgers, not sh*t ones like Rich Tea!)

Good luck!

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

pippincp — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:38:16 GMT

You do realise that beside the plastic outer cover there is also a Kevlar inner cover? You know, the stuff they make bullet proof vests out of.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

converse420 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:54:49 GMT

This is true, and in comparison, copper is a doddle to cut, sadly most bad guys use cutters not bullets. Sorry to harp on this but my neighbour(s) have had their fibre cut previously for reasons that could only be described as 'Broadband Envy', so I do understand the concern, reasoning and planning of the OP.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

pippincp — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:57:05 GMT

OK.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

ChunkyTheCurmudgeon — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 10:00:16 GMT

Hmm... kevlar.

I've got a couple of lengths of OF in my garage, one is 8 core, the other is 12 core, both multi-mode. They are what's left over from me me installing fibre in strategic places around the home, outbuildings and a good sized garden. MM was chosen because nothing is over 500m and it's faster than single mode. The network comms between house and workshop has been on fibre for over two years. It's a pity it is currently sitting at the end of 16Mb FTTC.

All joints were done and transceivers supplied by a good friend who installs all this stuff for a living, using a rather expensive (milti £k) cleaver and fusion splicer. The integrity was then tested with his even more expensive box of tricks that looks for sub-par joints. I have my terminations at each end in 19" racks, also there I have 16/24 port L2 switches with fibre ports for the interconnections. The cable itself is proper, exposed, industrial grade stuff, way more substantial that the lightly protected stuff that BT blows through ducts.

Despite the expensive tools and top shelf cable, I didn't have a problem cutting through it with my cable pliers, kevlar and all. Don't forget the fairy hair that you'll find inside the CSP box - bend it twice over your finger and it's bust for good.

I think I'd prefer no external visibility if I can achieve it. I'm glad that Converse 420 appreciates where I'm coming from, if the forum allowed emojis you'd be three thumbs up and a pint.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

pippincp — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 12:39:01 GMT

👍👍👍🍺

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

busterboy1 — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 13:11:59 GMT

👍👍👍🍺

Cheers. 😁

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

Starwire — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 15:08:55 GMT

The Kevlar, or yarn as Openreach call it after they were warned by ‘Kevlar’ to not to as it’s a Brand Name isn’t there to prevent the Fibre being cut either intentionally or accidentally. It makes cutting it more difficult with ordinary wire cutters but a good pair of Electricians Scissors will cut through it easily.

It’s only used in Connectorised Fibre as well as the EZ Bend Fibre Cable is more to protect it against it being bent and or damaged by a hammer blow when the Engineers cleating it against a wall.

If someone’s hell bent on breaking into your home chances are they’re getting in, security camera or no security camera.

I know someone who has every inch of his house/garden covered by CCTV, hasn’t stopped his VW Camper Van from being stolen twice and they never even bothered to disable to cameras, why when a balaclava easily hides your face. He was lucky the first time as the police found it and it was returned, the second time he wasn’t so lucky.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

converse420 — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 18:45:53 GMT

Most recent fibre engineer for me stated the Kevlar(sic) in the easy bend was to allow the fibre to be pushed in some circumstances rather than pulled. Nevertheless, the fragility of the fibre data core is quite an eye opener when viewed at the CSP after a fusion splice! As a further comment, it looked like the Kevlar was not wrapping the fibre, but in one/two separate parallel cores, separately sleeved, that were quickly dispatched by the engineer before splicing (happy to be fact checked on this).

Anyhoo, Full Fibre is brilliant, but it does seem more fragile, although no one will be digging it up or ripping it out anytime soon for a quick buck (like copper)!

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

Starwire — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 19:28:56 GMT

Back in the day Fibre was extremely fragile and you daren’t breath on it in fear of breaking it.

The newer stuff though, especially the Fibre used in Connectorised is a lot stronger and can be bent and twisted a lot more. That’s why Openreach can now get away with using those cheap Swift Splicers that only have one motor as opposed to the high end Sumitomo ones that they still have to use on the Spine and Core Network.

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

busterboy1 — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 20:14:24 GMT

I know nothing about splicers but this is what the chap did ours with.👍

Re: A Few FTTP ONT Queries

converse420 — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 21:23:35 GMT

I kind of hope that's a salt shaker on the left and he was rustling up Margaritas!