This topic

Handback Threshold

converse420 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:42:29 GMT

Apologies in advance, when doing a DSL/Line check there is a harnback threshold, which I believe is the lowest speed you should be able to expect before BT/Openreach accept that the service can be terminated for breach (of contract).

There are two hand back speeds, one for a clean circuit and on for an impacted circuit.

Question: How do we know if our FTTC installations are clean or impacted as this seems critical to the calculation?

Re: Handback Threshold

pippincp — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:47:30 GMT

The handback threshold is there for the ISP to give you a minimum guaranteed speed when you first take out a service and you would get an email stating exactly what that is.

Why not just tell us what your problem is and we can take it from there.

Re: Handback Threshold

converse420 — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 21:24:53 GMT

I have a back-up FTTC service and using the speed checker with 'MY BT' (directly connected to the SH2) my download speed is often between the handback threshold for clean/impacted. Curiously, my Stay Fast guarantee is 150Mb (which is obviously wrong for FTTC).

So, if I complain Bt may say my Line is clean (and therefore in breach), or dirty, in which case I have to suck it up.

So my question remains, how do I know if my line is clean or dirty?

Re: Handback Threshold

pippincp — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 22:03:58 GMT

Ok, so we now know you are on FTTC. Is this a VDSL or G.Fast connection. VDSL will go up to 80mb and G.Fast will go up to 330Mb. Both can be delivered via FTTC. How are you conecting wired or wireless?

Re: Handback Threshold

converse420 — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:32:01 GMT

I'm in a relatively small village, so G.FAST is not an option currently. This line is up to 80Mb (or 76, whatever VDSL/FTTC), but has varied widely above and below the various thresholds. Unfortunately from he checker stats I have no idea if my line is 'impacted' or 'clean'. As I've stated , this is a backup line so I'm not getting my knickers in a twist, but if push come to shove I would like to understand the science and provide evidence if I need to complain. This seems to be a failing on the open reach line test, as they know when FTTP is available and an ONT is installed, so I'm puzzled that they don't know/indicate if any equipment/line conditions exist on the circuit that would 'impact' performance?

Re: Handback Threshold

imjolly — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:45:36 GMT

It would help the forum member help you if you could post the stats from your hub and also the results from the dslchecker

have you checked if having connection problems to see if there is any line noise by dialling 17070 option 2. Should be silent and best with corded phone

Re: Handback Threshold

iniltous — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 17:26:01 GMT

Before you can be released penalty free from a contract, attempts to get your line above the minimum threshold are made, so if there is anything ‘impacting’ the lines performance, that would be attended to during this process , so it’s a moot point anyway.....FWIW, if you had poor internal wiring , or still had the bell wires connected on extension sockets , or had your router connected to a cheap telephone extension cable , that is likely to ‘impact’ your lines performance , so your speed may well fall into the impacted range, if your router is connected in the master socket test port, the line isn’t likely to be impacted, and you should expect clean line speed, so any initial complaint about ‘speed’ , would result in the ISP getting you to connect to the master socket test port....obviously if speed jumps to above any minimum, whatever the issue is, is yours and not with the ISP or OR

Re: Handback Threshold

converse420 — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 17:35:25 GMT

Thanks @imjolly , I manage many many FTTP/FTTC connections for my staff, so while I have a personal backup connection that is sub-par, I'm more interested in the precedent as a whole...

On any line check Openreach lists a max/min/handback speed for a specific address depending on whether the circuit is clean , or impacted.

The checker goes on to tell me if an ONT is installed/active etc. etc., but does not tell me if the line is 'impacted' by bridge Taps or any other current or legacy tech that might define a line as 'impacted'.

This information would be really useful on the occasions that we have poor service, as at the moment it feels like BT/Openreach can claim that the line is impacted without obvious evidence?

Re: Handback Threshold

converse420 — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 17:48:55 GMT

Thanks @iniltous , I get this, and as far as internal wiring in concerned I am a NINJA since 1982.

I'm feeling a bit frustrated that I cannot properly convey my point!

Openreach Have a clean and an impacted speed for my circuit, but no guidance as to which I can expect?

Re: Handback Threshold

imjolly — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 18:14:41 GMT

the way to make progress on this customer help customer forum is to post connection information but that is entirely up to you

Re: Handback Threshold

pippincp — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 18:52:50 GMT

Are you a business customer? If so we can't help you and you should post here https://business.forums.bt.com/t5/Broadband-and-internet/bd-p/Broadband

If you are a residential customer you already have the answer in message 2.

Re: Handback Threshold

iniltous — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 19:27:21 GMT

If you are asking ‘is my line clean or impacted ‘, OR don’t know , and it doesn’t really matter, if whatever speed you get is within the clean range ( self explanatory) your line is clean ( or clean enough ) if it’s within the impacted range, then it’s possible there is something that can be improved, possibly within your curtilage, possibly outside of it.....if your question is, if the speed were within the impacted range , can I be allowed to leave, then it depends....the thing impacting the line may be entirely within your area of responsibility, so the answer would initially be ‘No’, if you are sure that the line is OK within your ‘boundary’ but is in the impacted range , then you could report a fault, with the usual provisos, if OR cannot get your line into the clean range, then presumably even though the line is defect free its still underperforming according to the estimate so , presumably you can leave...but borderline cases like yours , chances are the onus would be on you to show a continued impacted performance, not simply saying , 3 or 4 days a month it slips occasionally into impacted....in my case the difference is 2.4Mb, ( 3% of my speed) so it’s hardly a difference , and certainly not noticeable in any meaningful way

Re: Handback Threshold

pippincp — Sat, 08 Aug 2020 14:36:09 GMT

@iniltous What the OP wants to know is which handback thereshold is used to be able to cancel without penalty, the clean or impacted.

The answer to that is for a residential connection, neither. The handback threshold is there for Openreaches customer, the ISP.

For the ISP's customer there is the minimum guaranteed sync speed given by the ISP to their customer. Even then the ISP must be allowed up to 3 mths to attempt to correct the problem before being allowed to exit without penalty.

This has currently been suspended by OFCOM during the current Covid situation as has automatic compensation.

I do not know the requirements for a business connection.