This topic

Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:53:43 GMT

When my VDSL connection is dropped for any reason (power or periodic hub dropout) my Smart Hub 2 can take half and hour to negotiate the connection again if left to itself. If I power-cycle it after it has made its first attempt and failed, then it usually connects more quickly. This has _always_ been an issue.

We are at about the limit for VDSL operation over the copper from the cabinet to the house (>3km). Its a fully-digital cabinet so ADSL is not available.

Some time ago, while sorting a long-latency issue, an engineer made a change that improved things, but it is always desperately slow reconnecting now. (We still sometimes get slow-latency but not always)

Any ideas?

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

imjolly — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:28:57 GMT

welcome to the BT community forum where customers help customers and only BT employees are the forum mods

in order for the forum members to help please can you post the stats from your router (if hub enter 192.168.1.254 in your browser) and if HH5 then go to troubleshooting then helpdesk and if HH6/SH2 then advanced settings then technical log information .

Have you tried the quiet line test? - dial 17070 option 2 - should hear nothing - best done with a corded phone. if cordless phone you may hear a 'dull hum' which is normal

enter your phone number and post results remember to delete number https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

Someone may then be able to offer help/assistance/suggestions to your problem

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:34:17 GMT

Product code:Smart Hub 2

Serial number:+091298+1849001036

Firmware version:v0.21.03.07094-BT

Firmware updated:Sat Oct 24 03:01:57 2020

Board version:R01

GUI version:1.56 15_02_2019

DSL uptime:0 days,14 Hours57 Mins00 Secs

Data rate:1.137 Mbps / 4.509 Mbps

Maximum data rate:1.137 Mbps / 5.213 Mbps

Noise margin:7.5 / 4.5

Line attenuation:4.6 / 38.7

Signal attenuation:15.9 / 60.3

VLAN id:101

Upstream error control:Off

Downstream error control:Off

Data sent / received:139.0 MB Uploaded / 726.5 MB Downloaded

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:37:05 GMT

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

Keith_Beddoe — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:44:50 GMT

You would be better on ADSL, as its shown as available.

It comes from the exchange, so the fact that your main cabinet is linked to a fibre cabinet, has no bearing on that.

The problem is that it seems to be impossible to order an ADSL connection, if there is FTTC available, even though the connection may be worse.

It should be possible to override the order system, and allow an ADSL regrade to take place, otherwise there is nothing you can do.

You are well below the minimum USO speed, so BT should off a 4G mobile connection, provided you are in a 4G coverage area.

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:44:53 GMT

Basic Speed Test

Broadband Speed Test

Executed Successfully

PING 21ms

DOWNLOAD 3.81Mbps

UPLOAD 1.06Mbps

Advance Test

Download Test

Download speed achieved during the test was 3.81 Mbps

For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2.82 - 4.03 Mbps

IP Profile for your line is 4.03 Mbps

Upload Test

Upload speed achieved during the test was 1.06 Mbps

IP Profile for your line is 20 Mbps

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:51:40 GMT

No copper from the cabinet to the exchange is available. Its all in use. I've asked.
(And no mobile coverage at the house, so mini-hubs are a joke for me.)

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

Keith_Beddoe — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:54:03 GMT

@p_harris wrote:
No copper to the exchange is available.
(And no mobile coverage at the house.)

How is your phone line working then, as that comes from the exchange not the cabinet? There is no exchange equipment to give dial tone, in the cabinet.

The availability checker says ADSL is available, but upload speed is likely to be very poor.

I think you have got the best connection you are ever going to get, unless Openreach install FTTP.

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

imjolly — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:52:19 GMT

Quiet line test?

from dslchecker your speeds are better on fibre than on adsl but not by much. Speeds are within expecked range but you are so far from street cab you are not going to get any better. You appear to be on fibre 2 and would be better on the essential package and save some money

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:56:29 GMT

Sorry, meant to say that the quiet line test is... quiet.

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 18:12:15 GMT

Just to reiterate my query : Why does the modem take so desperately long to negotiate a connection ? I understand modems, and have written protocols. What it is doing is just rubbish, as when it connects, all is good. Its sort-of-like there is an 'intermediate' timeout that the VDSL negotiation algorithm trips over and gives up. (Not going to go into why its so long between retries.)

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

Keith_Beddoe — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 19:47:06 GMT

The home hub has to try all possible combinations of connections as it has to deal with everything from ADSL upward, as its not possible to fix the connection profile, so a bit of noise on a slow connection, can really upset it.

You may be better with a third party modem/router costing £35, which does allow you to specify the connection profile. Its worth a try, as its quite popular,

This one allows you to do that https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/dsl-modem-router/td-w9970/

There is a software emulator which you can play with.

https://emulator.tp-link.com/W9970V2_Emulator/index.htm

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

pippincp — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 22:16:03 GMT

@Keith_Beddoewrote:
You would be better on ADSL, as its shown as available.
It comes from the exchange, so the fact that your main cabinet is linked to a fibre cabinet, has no bearing on that.
The problem is that it seems to be impossible to order an ADSL connection, if there is FTTC available, even though the connection may be worse.
It should be possible to override the order system, and allow an ADSL regrade to take place, otherwise there is nothing you can do.
You are well below the minimum USO speed, so BT should off a 4G mobile connection, provided you are in a 4G coverage area.

How would the OP be better off on ADSL with an estimated speed of up to 1Mb?

Being below the minimum USO speed does not automatically mean the offer of a 4G connection unless

"You’re not due to get access to one (USO) through a publicly funded scheme within the next 12 months".

The OP can check HERE if this is the case or not and what options are available.

We are now less than 3 years from the stop sell date for ADSL by Openreach so I doubt ISP's have overides in there order systems now.

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

p_harris — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 09:41:32 GMT

So... its likely that the _actual_ noise on the line (not whats measured) is disturbing the negotiation.
Therefore one conclusion is that the designer of the vdsl negotiation algorithm didnt expect to cope with long runs of copper outside of a test lab ! (Surprise!) AND the test dept didnt know how to do 'real world' tests (Surprise!)

I think my valley (like many others I am sure) is the victim of an 'inky' in an office deciding that was where the cabinet was going to go, and (as usual) any engineering input as to whether it would be 'in spec' for all customers was ignored.
Thank you for the USO info as I was unaware of the legal support for a 10Mb service.

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

pippincp — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 09:52:41 GMT

@p_harriswrote:
So... its likely that the _actual_ noise on the line (not whats measured) is disturbing the negotiation.
Therefore one conclusion is that the designer of the vdsl negotiation algorithm didnt expect to cope with long runs of copper outside of a test lab ! (Surprise!) AND the test dept didnt know how to do 'real world' tests (Surprise!)

I think my valley (like many others I am sure) is the victim of an 'inky' in an office deciding that was where the cabinet was going to go, and (as usual) any engineering input as to whether it would be 'in spec' for all customers was ignored.
Thank you for the USO info as I was unaware of the legal support for a 10Mb service.

I think you'll find that 'inky' in the office was planning just a PSTN service and had no inkling if what an internet connection was.

Re: Appalling Hub Speed Negociation

TimCurtis — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 12:40:04 GMT

@p_harris

I think that @Keith_Beddoe suggestion for a cheap third-party modem/router is likely your best option as it doesn't have to do so much re-negotiation as a SmartHub. The TP-Link recommended by Keith is well suited to BT Fibre installations.

This doesn't really answer your query but probably provides the best solution.