This topic

FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 10:29:24 GMT

Question about the install process.

I have an existing copper line with BT FTTC with a small grey box outside my house and the drive has been recently tarmaced.

Our street recently was dug up to fit fibre for Virgin and as such the termination point at the end of my driveway has a Virgin logo on it.

I have just booked an upgrade to FTTP with BT and it is to be installed at the end of the month.

When I run the broadband availability checker for my line I get the below :

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues. FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

My question is :

Does "Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues" mean that my new fibre line will be installed from overhead cables and I can choose where it enters the house and it doesn't use the copper line? Can I assume the Virgin termination point is not shared with BT and there is no need to dig up the driveway?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

pippincp — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 10:36:23 GMT

Correct.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

iniltous — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 10:48:42 GMT

Is there already overhead service in your area , even though your property is fed underground ?
There is ( presumably ) an Openreach engineer who posts on a similar forum to this one, stating he is aware of an area that is ( from a copper pair perspective) served underground, by DIG cables ( direct in ground rather than cable in ducts ) so obviously a new fibre cable would be expensive if excavation of the public roads/paths as well as the customers ‘land’ were required, so an overhead solution ( a new pole where none existed before ) has been provided and any FTTP ordered in that location would be overhead irrespective of the existing underground service...so if your area has a mix of O/H and UG , and your property can be served OH then that’s how it would be delivered, if there is no O/H it could be a database error.
VM network is totally separate , and although Openreach have to offer PIA ( passive infrastructure access ) to others , VM are under no obligation to share their ducts etc, so they don’t.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 12:24:39 GMT

So I had a look outside and it looks like some properties down the street from me are served by overhead cable - picture below. But I live at the end of a cul-de-sac so there are no houses directly beside me that are served by overhead cables. It looks like they stopped at a certain point - closest house to mine served by cable is 5 doors down or across the road.

Will it come down to how far the cable can be run from distribution pole to my house if I can get FTTP or not? From reading other forum posts there was a 68 metre limit for dropwire, is that the same for Fibre? https://community.bt.com/t5/Archive-Staging/What-is-maximum-length-of-drop-wire/td-p/399881

What are the chances of a new distribution pole being put in place?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

iniltous — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:04:57 GMT

There is a span length maximum ( it could be 68m , but others may know for sure ) ,and there has to be a minimum height over the road.
The pole looks like a hollow pole , so the usual attachments to connect the fibre drop wire to a wooden pole wouldn’t be usable, this could cause issues.
There is a contributor Starwire who installs this type of thing, they may be along sometime and give an opinion on if your install will proceed without delay or if it needs to be reassessed.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

Starwire — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:05:24 GMT

O/H FTTP Drop Wires can now span to a maximum of 75m as they recently changed the rules.

If it’s not possible to provide it O/H from the Hollow Pole to your house it would need to be sent for Planning and they’d come up with a solution, usually the cheapest. Could be they put another Carrier Pole in or they may have to do some maintenance dig work. Couldn’t really say without seeing Map for the street.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:58:46 GMT

Thanks Starwire. I did a crude google maps measurement as the crow flies and it measures as 70.31m - see below.

In between there are electrical wires which I have marked manually. Does that have any bearing. Would a fibre line be ok to go under the electrical wire which is quite high anyhow.

Do you know where I would find anything official about the 75m rule and the rules changing?

If they deem it needs to go for planning, digging etc, are they typically obliged to sort out a solution or could they just say it's not worth their while?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

iniltous — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:12:17 GMT

It’s possible the reason your property is served underground could be the overhead power , there has to be a minimum separation between the power and ‘phone line’ , the phone line being below the power ( so if it dropped it wouldn’t sit onto of the power ) it’s possible that the height over the road and the separation under the power cannot both be achieved, and that’s why your existing service isn’t overhead, unfortunately when your address was surveyed, it was probably a desk survey and an assumption made that overhead would be OK....it may still be OK, but better to be prepared for delay rather than it coming as a surprise.

Chances are any extra expense OR would foot the bill, not you.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

Starwire — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 17:08:56 GMT

Is the Power High or Low Voltage?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 23:35:58 GMT

look like low voltage lines, they're not connected to any local pylons anyhow. Does it make a difference?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 13:48:48 GMT

Here's the overhead line. Could overhead fibre lines be run under these power lines?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

licquorice — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 14:02:53 GMT

That is high voltage, I suspect @Starwire will be along at some point to confirm if it is possible, but I suspect not.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

Starwire — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:32:46 GMT

Yeah, that’s HV. It will either be 11k or 33k

11k you can put drop wires under them but with a minimum clearance of 1.8m. Bear in mind the drop wire needs to be at least 5.9m above the road.

If it’s 33k then you can’t put drop wires under it all.

Given your end of the road has the phone lines UG I’d hazard a guess it is 33k anyway.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:51:48 GMT

ok thanks Starwire. Sounds to me like it's going to have to go underground then?

If you were the engineer who rocked up at the end of the month, what is the most likely option if it's high voltage? Would a new fibre cable have to be run underground and then my driveway dug up – which would take months?

There are about 20 houses not served by cables at the end of the street if that makes any difference.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

ch — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:52:54 GMT

If you have a phone line to your house today then I assume it goes underground in a duct.

Surely they'll just push the fibre through that, same as they do for any property that doesn't have telegraph poles?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

Starwire — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:03:43 GMT

Depends when it was built and by who. A lot of cabling was buried Direct in Ground during the 60’s/70’s to reduce costs.

Even Ducting being place doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a easy as pushing it in, which they don’t do anyway, it’s Rod, Roped and pulled through. The Duct could be congested, blocked or if there’s Swept T’s involved you have to pray the put them on the right way round when it was built.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

ch — Wed, 11 Nov 2020 09:57:08 GMT

Ah, see what you mean.

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

brianilland — Wed, 11 Nov 2020 10:26:36 GMT

My neighbour three doors up is showing as Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Duct rodded and roped, presumably this is a database error for my house.

I can't see how fibre could be brought to replace below wiring without digging. Are there some special tools to replace the copper with fibre?

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

AnMadraRua — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 11:43:58 GMT

The maximum dropwire length is still 68 metres. The new 75 metre and 85 metre rules apply to spans between poles. If the measured distance is greater than 68 then they will have to look at a UG solution for your feed or possibly drop a carrier pole somewhere. The equipment used to connect to your house is called a CBT and is mounted at the top of a wooden pole or inside a hollow pole utilising a CBT specifically for hollow poles called a "squid".

Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead

pippincp — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 14:29:45 GMT

@AnMadraRua68 mtr dropwire refers to copper connections. This thread refers to FTTP.