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FTTP Installation Feedback

TheElectron — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 20:00:32 GMT

Hello everyone.

I had an installation performed last week and just wanted to get some feedback about the installation. It was performed by a Kelly engineer.

After the engineer had left, I took a closer look at the incoming hole and noticed there was no seal/grommet. The hole leads into the plasterboard, the internal wall, a cavity then out of the external wall. I'm a bit concerned about moisture/damp (warm air/cool air) and insects (!). The hole is directly below the RJ45 socket and the fibre has an awkward bend/loop as it goes into the optical socket.

I was expecting a conduit to be used between the two walls and a grommet/cap on either side. Is this only used on certain installations or did the engineer forget to use it?

There is a bit of a larger-than-expected hole on the external rendered wall but, to the engineer's credit, he did use some silicone sealant and put some fragments back. Other than the silicone, there is no seal or grommet outside either.

Being slightly annoyed over the weekend, I raised a complaint with BT. This was probably overzealous but as no-one has responded yet, I could close the complaint. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

pippincp — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 21:31:10 GMT

That looks like a normal install. They don't use conduit and grommets so I don't know where you get that from.

There looks nothing wrong with the bend radius of the fibre optic cable either.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

stevebrass — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 21:39:40 GMT

Yes - the loop is okay but my installation has a grommet on the inside.

It don't think it acceptable either to use sealer outside, unless the damage is very minimal. A cable entry cap of some sort should be used.

I would keep the complaint going.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

TheElectron — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:20:51 GMT

Thank you for the replies.

I probably haven't used the correct terminology but I believe its called a Lead In Kit. This contains the pipe (conduit) and covers/caps (grommets) to cover the holes on either side.

Here is an image to show you what I mean.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

stevebrass — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:58:27 GMT

Yep. That is like my installation.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Starwire — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 20:07:50 GMT

As TheElectron said they normally fit what’s in that picture, it’s called an ‘Internal Lead In Kit’.

They’re unavailable at present and Openreach are waiting on a new supply of them.

Last I heard they had a back order of over 10,000.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

TheElectron — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 20:28:23 GMT

Thank you for your input Starwire.

If an Internal Lead In Kit hasn't been used, would this be a valid issue to raise with Openreach via BT?

Also, would Openreach have any issues with the way the fibre presently enters the wall and bends into the ONT?

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Starwire — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 20:31:45 GMT

Nowt wrong with the bend on that Fibre.

Only issue is, is the hole is to close to the ONT now so to fit an Internal Lead In Kit you’d have to shift the ONT up a few inches, which may expose the original drill holes.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

TheElectron — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:28:48 GMT

A quick update to give this thread some closure.

I hadn't received any response from BT but raised this with Openreach last week. Two Kelly engineers visited this morning, which was a surprise but I did miss their calls yesterday.

I discussed the installation with them and I was told that the lead-in kit isn't used when the entry point is close to the ONT and the gap around the internal fibre entry-point (leading to the cavity) is not a problem. I'm not convinced the lack of an internal seal/cap is a good idea but its probably not worth pursuing this any further.

I originally expected the hole to be roughly 60mm underneath the optical socket, rather than directly below the RJ45 socket, but was told that bend would be unsafe for the fibre as it went up to the ONT. They did say that they could drill a hole where I preferred it to be but if there were any issues with the fibre, it would be my responsibility (or something to that effect).

They did put up a brick-blaster cover on the external entry point so that does look neater now.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

stevebrass — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 18:20:45 GMT

I think they are giving you a bit of flannel there. It may be they did not have the lead in kit, either originally or now, but in any event I am not sure there is space for one now.

A hole that size will allow ingress/egress of a variety bugs and beasties. I would carefully seal it with non setting decorator’s caulk or buy a cable entry grommet, split it and carefully place it around the cable. Obviously if you damage the cable then BT would charge to repair, so if in doubt leave it.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Starwire — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 18:01:38 GMT

‘I was told that the lead-in kit isn't used when the entry point is close to the ONT and the gap around the internal fibre entry-point (leading to the cavity) is not a problem.’

I can 110% assure you they were talking absolute s#1t.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

TheElectron — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 20:20:56 GMT

I was hoping that Openreach would send one of their own engineers to take a look, rather than Kelly's.

At this point, it's probably not worth pursuing this further. I imagine if they did try to do the install again properly, I'm doubtful it'd be done neatly. Plus, the thought of them re-handling the existing fibre run doesn't fill me with confidence.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

stevebrass — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 22:24:53 GMT

@TheElectronwrote:
I was hoping that Openreach would send one of their own engineers to take a look, rather than Kelly's.
At this point, it's probably not worth pursuing this further. I imagine if they did try to do the install again properly, I'm doubtful it'd be done neatly. Plus, the thought of them re-handling the existing fibre run doesn't fill me with confidence.

I think you are probably right. I had a similar issue with my FTTP installation. Kelly's came back but didn't offer any real solution. Everything works fine, but in my experience, Openreach staff do a much neater job than contractors.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Starwire — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 06:10:04 GMT

Problem is Kelly’s, like Quinn’s, KN and Pickr are on Price Work, as in they get paid per job and only if it’s completed.

So why spend 3 hours doing a quality job and only getting paid £75 when you can bodge 2 jobs in that time and double your money.

Saying that though some of the quality I’ve seen from Openreach isn’t that much better either, especially from those on the new rolling contracts as they get a 10% Performance Related Bonus Based on their Completion Rate.

Im afraid everyone’s going to have to get used to it though as its going to be the norm. Contrary to popular belief The BT Group plc and or Openreach do not have an endless pot of money and if they’re going to build a National FTTP Network they need to do it on a budget so quality of equipment, products and quality aren’t the number priority. It’s now a case of get it in as fast and as cheap as possible.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

stevebrass — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 09:19:49 GMT

As a matter of interest, is it the company eg Kelly’s that get paid per job or the individual engineer - ie is the engineer on piece work or a wage?

either way any if £75 includes materials you can see why not using them is so attractive.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Starwire — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 18:21:57 GMT

I don’t know exactly how much they get per job, the £75 was just a random figure.

No they don’t pay for the stores items but that’s irrelevant to what I was saying. They can have all the tools/stock they need but that doesn’t mean they’ll do a ‘Quality’ job.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Gary_C — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 03:11:24 GMT

When OR did my fibre install, they left the bare fibre running up and along the wall, while other houses nearby have grey conduit.
It means the fibre is not protected in anyway, but actually looks much better than the fairly chunky conduit used so I haven't complained.

Might be interesting if it gets damaged though.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

licquorice — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 07:02:31 GMT

Bare fibre is the size of a human hair. There is ample protection for the fibre itself within the cable (which I suspect you are referring to) without the need for conduit.

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Starwire — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 07:43:58 GMT

Depends if it’s the older CCA Cable, which has a thick layer of polyethylene insulation, Kevlar, a 5mm Micron Core, followed by another Layer of Kevlar then a 3mm Micro Core Layer.

As opposed to the new ROC Cable, which is flat and the fibre is sandwiched in the middle with just what I think is a 1mm Micro Core Layer!

And the best bit, the new ROC Cable is going to be used on the Overhead Network as well so good luck if your Drop Cable runs through trees!

Re: FTTP Installation Feedback

Gary_C — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:42:00 GMT

Ok, ok.

Yes I mean the cable with the fibre inside it.

If you want to be pedantic is a CORNING OPTICAL CABLE SMF BIF 5000865145 FASTACCESS <TM> TECNOLOGY 023518 FT

Using the fastaccess tech which allows easy splitting of the sheath to expose the fibre.

Now, I was pointing out that all my neighbours who had installations at around the same time (new roll out to an estate build in 2004) all have plastic trunking up to the box on the wall while mine is just the small black cable.

The corning cable seems to have reasonable crush resistance, but its vulnerable to being snagged.

However, I think it looks better.