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New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

SPDChemist — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 08:10:23 GMT

Hello,

I have just moved to a place that has an Openreach ONT in the utility room. I can currently get Ethernet connection to my games console by connecting the ONT directly to the router in the cupboard and then by plugging an Ethernet cable into socket 1 near the ONT, which leads to my living room as the media plate has an Ethernet socket also labelled 1.

I would also like to connect my smart TV using Ethernet but I would have to use a splitter (would this effect the speeds?) with the current set-up.

Ideally I would have my router in the living room and connect various devices through Ethernet from the back of the hub. I have tried various combinations of plugging Ethernets/patch cables (don’t really know the difference) from the ONT to socket 1 and then plugging the router into socket 1 in the living room, but I fail to get an internet connection, like I do with the above set-up.

I also have a socket 2 that goes to the living room but don’t plan on using that for now, otherwise the first set-up would be preferred.

Can anyone please help? Thanks in advance!

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

Keith_Beddoe — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 08:14:12 GMT

@SPDChemist

Where is the BT Smart Hub 2 located at the moment?

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

licquorice — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 08:30:39 GMT

Are you using the same patch leads in both scenarios? The only reason I can see that the router doesn't work in the Lounge is a faulty cable/patch lead.

Have you tried patching to the second link to see if it works?

If you keep the current configuration, you need an unmanaged Ethernet switch in the Lounge not a splitter.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

SPDChemist — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:30:51 GMT

@licquoriceI have tried to the other port (number 2) and this one (number 1) and they both worked for a period. Number 1 worked for a period of 20 min and then stopped and I couldn't get it working again. Number 2 I think worked up until I moved it.

I'll try again tonight and see how it goes.

Could you please tell me what types of cable I need between the following:

ONT--->ethernet port 1 utility cupboard--------------------> ethernet port 1 living room--->router--->device

? behind wall connection ? ( into WAN or LAN?)

Thanks!

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

SPDChemist — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:30:35 GMT

@Keith_Beddoe In the utility cupboard, which is okay as my flat is only small, but I'd prefer it to be in the living room for more access to ethernet ports and slightly better Wi-Fi coverage.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

Keith_Beddoe — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:45:30 GMT

As @licquorice has said, you just need the modem to home hub WAN port extended, assuming the builder terminated the cable correctly, and used good quality cable.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

Irish-Lynda — Fri, 03 Dec 2021 22:05:17 GMT

My set up is similar with the fibre coming into a central room but the builder forgot to run an ethernet cable out of the room to anywhere, just a traditional telephone cable, so I had BT send me a Powerline plug so I connected fibre box cable to powerline and then at the other end, powerline into the router.

I would check the internal cable to make sure it is properly connected.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

WSH — Fri, 03 Dec 2021 23:58:18 GMT

Theoretically, you can have up to 100m between the ONT and the router, although most techies wouldn’t try to push it that far.

“Ethernet/patch cable”. No such thing as Ethernet cable. Ethernet is a signal specification that can be passed over multiple cable types. The expression “patch cable” refers to its use rather than its type. A bit like the expression “mains cable”. Both expressions are pretty meaningless. Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable is what you want.

I wouldn’t take it for granted the cable in the wall is working properly. As installing network cabling is pretty new, most builders/sparkies don’t have a clue what they are doing. Doing it well is a bit more skilled than mains wiring.

You mentioned a socket 2. I assume there is also a socket 2 in the utility room? Have you tried using that? Remember, you need to connect to the WAN port on the router, not the LAN ports.

If you stick with the router in the utility room, as Liquorice has already said, you want a gigabit, unmanaged switch. A switch also acts as a signal repeater and should not lose any speed. Even if it is handling a lot of devices at the same time any latency is negligible.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

Gary_C — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 05:35:13 GMT

"No such thing as Ethernet cable"

That's simply not true, its just not used that much any more.

Also, mains wiring is more complex than you obviously realise. Its not just running cables and tightening some connections. Loading and heat dissipation, zonal restrictions, Part P restrictions just to name a few. Have a look at BS7671 18th edition,

Becoming a qualified electrician is harder than learning to punch down on some Cat6 cable.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

Gary_C — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 05:39:39 GMT

So from what you have said
ONT to router WAN port then router LAN port into socket 1 then out of socket 1 in the living room to console works ?

So ONT to socket 1, then socket 1 in living room into the router WAN port then from the router LAN ports to the console should also work, does it ?

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

iniltous — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 09:32:32 GMT

As already indicated, on new builds with OR FTTP ,Openreach pay the developer, but it’s the developer who install the ‘internal’ fibre optic cable from wherever the developer chooses, to the outside wall ,( where the external cable appears ) , so the position of the ONT , is nothing to do with OR or the ISP, the only stipulation OR have , is it is next to a double power socket.
Some developers also install ‘network’ cables from the location of the ONT to other rooms , so the router doesn’t have to be co-located where the ONT is , using RJ45 cables the router can be sited away from the ONT, but some developers may only provide these network cables if the client pays for this as an extra ( done while the building is being constructed , it’s not going to be added after the keys are handed over ) , the sockets may exist but no cabling between them, and some make no provision at all, …some only provide RJ11 phone sockets even though they are unlikely to ever be used.

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

WSH — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 09:47:17 GMT

Sorry, I didn’t mean sparkies don’t know how to wire electrics. Of course, that area is much more complex. You’ve only got to look at the size of the 18th edition bible to see that. Some of them are just not that good at network cabling in my experience.

The expression Ethernet cable is not used much any more because it never actually existed. Ethernet can be passed over twisted pair, co-axial and fibre optic, so what is Ethernet cable?

Re: New build ONT in utility room - can I set-up router in my living room?

Gary_C — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 21:40:16 GMT

Ethernet cable certainly did exist !

Look up 10Base5 and 10Base2 ethernet standards.

The original ethernet cable was a coax cable to which taps were added at specific points along the cable (where the standing wave was strongest), these taps pushed through the insulation and made contact with the core of the coax cable.
This 'vampire tap' MAU (Medium attachment unit) usually had the Attachment Unit Interface which connected via a 15 pin cable to the network card on the computer. All transmission was done on the single core using CSMA/CD which stands for Carrier Sense Multiple Access with Collision Detection using an MAC address to determine the source and destination of the ethernet packets. The AUI/Network card would detect activity on the ethernet cable and when free, would allow transmission. Because there is a chance two units could try to talk at the same time, the collision detection function would detect it and halt transmission, the transmission would then be reattempted after a delay which is based on the units ethernet address which has to be unique so preventing the two units from colliding again.

The current systems of course don't use thick or thin ethernet cable, and use twisted pairs to communicate over individual wires but interestingly, the ethernet spec still includes the collision detection function even though CSMA isn't used anymore.

I am currently sitting about 50 yards from several computer systems that still uses thick ethernet to communicate with our supermini computers using 10base5 Thick ethernet cable. I even have several MicroVax computers at home that network together using thin ethernet. As twisted pair became the norm, AUI's that connect to twisted pair cables were produced to allow older machines to connect to a modern switch. Fundamentally, ethernet protocol is the same, its the medium it uses that has changed.

Real ethernet cable had the advantage of just needing to run a single coax cable between every computer on the network (not the bundles of twisted pairs we have today) but of course, the more machines you had, the more collisions were likely and the slower the connections got. It then became popular to use bridges that would build routing tables and identify on which side of the bridge a MAC address existed and not burden an ethernet cable with a transmission that would not be used by any machine on that cable. This functionality is also used on modern switches.

But yes, IDC connectors isn't or wasn't normally part of an electricians training 🙂