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Digital voice and power cuts.

Soran101 — Wed, 12 May 2021 19:06:48 GMT

Hi, I am about to be switched over to Digital Voice, and my concern is what I am I supposed to do in a power cut? I live in a very rural village where all services are overhead lines, and power cuts can be quite regular during storms etc. Mobile phones only get a signal via WiFi calling, and do not work during a power cut.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

BAFlyer — Wed, 12 May 2021 19:35:53 GMT

Your only option is to use a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) for your SH2 router and ONT. If the ONT and SH2 are not co-located you’ll have to get a UPS for each device. I don’t have Digital Voice yet but my SH2 and ONT which are not co-located are powered via seperate UPS’s and I know from the odd power cuts I’ve suffered the system performs as expected. My SH2 UPS in made by APC and supports several devices. My ONT is powered via a very small UPS, the ONT mains power powers the 12 volt UPS which in turn feeds the ONT. A search on a well know online store for “mini UPS” will lead you to what I mean. The white one is the unit I have and will power the ONT for several hours. A UPS for the HUB will be a little more expensive but most of the small UPS units will have enough battery power to power the hub for at least 20 minutes, probably longer if you only power the hub via the UPS.

Hope this helps.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Stevek1311 — Fri, 21 May 2021 12:59:37 GMT

@BAFlyerwrote:
Your only option is to use a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) for your SH2 router and ONT. If the ONT and SH2 are not co-located you’ll have to get a UPS for each device. I don’t have Digital Voice yet but my SH2 and ONT which are not co-located are powered via seperate UPS’s and I know from the odd power cuts I’ve suffered the system performs as expected. My SH2 UPS in made by APC and supports several devices. My ONT is powered via a very small UPS, the ONT mains power powers the 12 volt UPS which in turn feeds the ONT. A search on a well know online store for “mini UPS” will lead you to what I mean. The white one is the unit I have and will power the ONT for several hours. A UPS for the HUB will be a little more expensive but most of the small UPS units will have enough battery power to power the hub for at least 20 minutes, probably longer if you only power the hub via the UPS.
Hope this helps.

Echoing the concerns of the OP it seems like BT haven't thought this through at all but intend to force a change on my house that:

a) will cut us off during power cuts with no emergency call option

b) has other issues (I'll try to find relevant threads for)

c) has no option to say no, at best an option to delay if we have a phone connected Burglar Alarm (we don't)

However it appears that when the consultation was going on (can't recall being invited to comment) BT responded to OfCom in effect saying Ofcom could proceed assuming BT would provide Uninterruptible Power supplies to domestic consumers - see paragraph 25 here: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/117196/BT.pdf

'25. While the spirit of the guidance is technology-neutral, we believe that initially most CPs
are likely to offer a battery backup solution.'

Seems BT later decided to renege on this, however OfCom don't seem to have agreed as this is what OfCom are currently saying https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/problems/landlines-and-power-cuts

'Ofcom rules mean providers must take all necessary measures to ensure their customers can call the emergency services during a power cut. So these companies will need to put additional protections in place as they move to new broadband-based call technology.'

So I plan to say 'no thanks BT'

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 21 May 2021 13:06:23 GMT

@Stevek1311

This is BTs option https://shop.bt.com/products/cyberpower-back-up-for-bt-digital-voice-service--non-fttp--091297-FV54.html?ReferrerID=G600&utm_source=btcom&utm_medium=bt+marketing&utm_campaign=digital+voice+non+fttp&utm_content=G600

I would hope that its loaned, on request.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Les-Gibson — Fri, 21 May 2021 13:57:59 GMT

@Keith_Beddoewrote:
@Stevek1311
This is BTs option https://shop.bt.com/products/cyberpower-back-up-for-bt-digital-voice-service--non-fttp--091297-FV54.html?ReferrerID=G600&utm_source=btcom&utm_medium=bt+marketing&utm_campaign=digital+voice+non+fttp&utm_content=G600
I would hope that its loaned, on request.

I am also concerned about this having just been informed that I will be switched over to DV soon.

The mobile signal indoors is so bad where I live that all calls are routed via my broadband connection, this of course means no broadband - no phone calls in or out, emergency or otherwise.

Perhaps @SeanD or one of the other mods could confirm that standby UPS's or Battery Backup Units (perhaps something along the lines of the BBU used to power the ONT for FVA) will be made available free of charge to all on DV?

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 21 May 2021 14:13:40 GMT

The real question is whether BT or any other provider, should be responsible for providing backup power, as mains power is in the power company`s domain.

Many people already use cordless (DECT) phones, which do not work during a power cut, but you do not hear any people complaining about that.

I doubt that BT are going to provide the backup units to everyone, unless there is a genuine need, like an alarm system.

Where I live, (for 40 years) its not unusual to get a number of power interruptions throughout the year due to old joints failing, or a substation fuse failing. I have a UPS to keep the PC stuff and broadband equipment running.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

NeilO — Fri, 21 May 2021 14:31:37 GMT

Hi Everyone.

I found the following info on the BT.com help pages Digital Voice: Will my service work in a power cut?

There's also quite a bit of useful info on the Digital voice migrations FAQ's

Cheers

Neil

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Stevek1311 — Fri, 21 May 2021 14:42:09 GMT

@Keith_Beddoewrote:
The real question is whether BT or any other provider, should be responsible for providing backup power, as mains power is in the power company`s domain.
Many people already use cordless (DECT) phones, which do not work during a power cut, but you do not hear any people complaining about that.
I doubt that BT are going to provide the backup units to everyone, unless there is a genuine need, like an alarm system.
Where I live, (for 40 years) its not unusual to get a number of power interruptions throughout the year due to old joints failing, or a substation fuse failing. I have a UPS to keep the PC stuff and broadband equipment running.

For many years BT required that you have at least one phone connected that would still work in a power cut. In fact I still thought that was so and maintain one connected to this day.

I've heard DECT phone users complain many times and have always told them it's their own fault

But this is to digress, BT appear to be in default of OfCom's requirements and their own promises to OfCom and as per the leaflet I received today and the links Neil has provided BT are very much trying to hide this. Not good form.

The Ofcom link I posted was last July and is their most recent pronouncement on the topic. It doesn't mince its words with that 'providers must take all necessary measures to ensure their customers can call the emergency services during a power cut' does it.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Stevek1311 — Fri, 21 May 2021 16:35:59 GMT

@Keith_Beddoewrote:
@Stevek1311
This is BTs option https://shop.bt.com/products/cyberpower-back-up-for-bt-digital-voice-service--non-fttp--091297-FV54.html?ReferrerID=G600&utm_source=btcom&utm_medium=bt+marketing&utm_campaign=digital+voice+non+fttp&utm_content=G600
I would hope that its loaned, on request.

Thanks for that, unfortunately it says 'non FTTP' and guess what we are? Yes FTTP. And since they put our Home Hub at the furthest wall to our living room I'd need a further back up source for the Digital Voice Adapter (not that I think that'll work for us looking at other threads)

And a loan woud have to be for the duration of the phone contract with BT.

This whole Digital Voice fiasco looks like it is designed to kill off normal phones in some hope we'll all take up mobile contracts with BT. Well that isn't going to happen for us. We do have mobile phones but not all masts have back up power.

Still if I wanted a new career in burglary from 2025 I now know the best times, just wait for a power cut as no one can call the police.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

conrad — Fri, 21 May 2021 17:32:11 GMT

@Stevek1311 There is a drop down option to change from the Non to the FTTP version - the select box just under the price

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Stevek1311 — Fri, 21 May 2021 17:40:01 GMT

@conradwrote:
@Stevek1311 There is a drop down option to change from the Non to the FTTP version - the select box just under the price

Thanks, I really should have spotted that

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Les-Gibson — Fri, 21 May 2021 20:27:33 GMT

@Stevek1311

I'd be cautious before ordering one, the user guide on the BT website is the same for both the FTTP and non-FTTP variant and lists the continuous power capability as 24Watts (i.e 2A max current).

The power unit for the ONT is rated at 1.5A and the power unit for the SH2 is rated at either 2 or 2.5A (I can't remember which), this of course, adds up to 3.5 or 4A (up to 48Watts).

Therefore, going by the spec sheet, this unit is not capable of supplying both the ONT and the SH2

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 21 May 2021 20:30:02 GMT

That is the power supply rating, the actual current consumption would be a lot less.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Les-Gibson — Fri, 21 May 2021 20:44:20 GMT

@Keith_Beddoewrote:
That is the power supply rating, the actual current consumption would be a lot less.

Hi Keith.

I don't see your point, I did say it was the power adaptor ratings.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 21 May 2021 21:12:14 GMT

That is the maximum rating, as is stated on all power units. The actual loading is less than that.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Stevek1311 — Fri, 21 May 2021 21:58:19 GMT

@Les-Gibsonwrote:
@Stevek1311
I'd be cautious before ordering one, the user guide on the BT website is the same for both the FTTP and non-FTTP variant and lists the continuous power capability as 24Watts (i.e 2A max current).
The power unit for the ONT is rated at 1.5A and the power unit for the SH2 is rated at either 2 or 2.5A (I can't remember which), this of course, adds up to 3.5 or 4A (up to 48Watts).
Therefore, going by the spec sheet, this unit is not capable of supplying both the ONT and the SH2

I'm very much not going to rush to pay £85 for what looks like a 90VA UPS when to meet its obligations to OfCom they have to give it for free and the market will sell a 500VA one for a lot less money.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

garybs29 — Sat, 22 May 2021 07:41:27 GMT

By your reckoning then that would mean cordless phones shouldn't be sold either as they're against the ofcom guidelines

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Stevek1311 — Sat, 22 May 2021 15:50:42 GMT

@garybs29wrote:

By your reckoning then that would mean cordless phones shouldn't be sold either as they're against the ofcom guidelines

No because the rule was that you still had to have an analog wired phone in one of your phone outlets. And that's what we've always done. 99%+ of our use is by the DECT phones but when we had a power cut this Wednesday we immediately got a call on the wired phone.

BT are going to say 'what's the problem, you've got a mobile' and fair enough for me at my current age I know it's unlikely to be a problem. But what if I'm out of the house and Mrs K is still there (whose mobile is routinely flat)? What if the local mast is also without power.

I'd like to say BT/OpenReach haven't thought this through but I think they have. They think they are going to just be able to ignore the OfCom rules and think stuff their more vulnerable (and low revenue) customers. Well tough BT, if you want to own a monopoly supplier of phone infrastructure then that comes with obligations, regulations and laws.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

licquorice — Sat, 22 May 2021 15:37:06 GMT

@Stevek1311 wrote:

What about the millions and millions of people in the 70s and older that are not au fait with this and are going to be suddenly plunged into darkness and unable to call anyone?

Oi, not everybody in their 70s and older are technophobes. Please don't make such generalised disparaging comments.

Re: Digital voice and power cuts.

Andy005 — Sat, 22 May 2021 16:40:10 GMT

I would have expected BT to obtain data from the likes of Western Power Distribution etc to ascertain what areas suffer from frequent power outages and if necessary offer UPS to those if needed. Irrespective of what had been agreed with Ofcom, the vast majority shouldn't need a UPS, exceptions being medical monitors/alarms etc.

I've had DV for around two years and I've probably had two or three short power cuts in that time. I don't get a mobile signal indoors and barely one outdoors, so on the rare occasions that the power goes off I have no communication unless I go wandering outside - there's more to life than worrying about being cut off for a few minutes.

It reminds me of when O2 I think it was, had a major outage and the masses went into meltdown because they couldn't get onto social media to whinge about it, it's not that important. Some might say, ah yes, but what if.... What if a lump of rock from outer space lands on my exchange now, or an Uber driver takes out my cabinet (I always give Uber drivers a very wide berth).

I would think that the objective of 2025 is somewhat optimistic so this is going to evolve over time, BT don't help themselves though by rolling something out with very little support to the customer.