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Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 12:48:53 GMT

Our master phone socket is in the lounge where the SmartHub2 sits, and our only corded phone is in the hall. This telephone instrument was connected to the master phone socket using a 10 metre long plug to socket extension cable. The problem with this setup was that the phone line became noisy, on almost a weekly basis, and the fix was to replug the extension cable in the master socket - which would work until the next time. The noise would be very noticable on a 17070 quiet line test, and the hub's measured noise margin would drop from around 11.5 down to 8 or 9dB - still good I know, but a difference nonetheless.

After the noise problem re-appeared this morning I decided to run in a permanent cable from lounge to hall - I've had the cable and socket for years, but never got around to doing it! I wired the extension socket as follows:

Terminal 2: Blue / White Ring

Terminal 3: Orange / White Ring

Terminal 5: White / Blue Ring

When I unclipped the Mk4 faceplate of the Openreach NTE5c, I saw on the part still on the wall 3 insulation displacement connectors, (IDC), marked 2, 3 and 5 - so connected the other end of my newly run cable as above. The telephone in the hall was completely dead. I then noticed a pair of IDC connectors on the back of the removed faceplate marked A and B, to which I connected the two blue/white wires and ignoring the orange one, (after cutting off the previously terminated ends of the cable).

Success, (I thought!), the telephone in the hall now worked - a quiet line test was absolutely silent. But when I looked at the SmartHub, the noise margin had dropped to barely above 6dB.

Something was obviously wrong, so I replaced the faceplate with another Openreach branded one that I bought on eBay last week and rewired it as before - still a noise margin of only 6dB.

I have now left it with a separate broadband filter plugged in to the engineer's test socket in the wallplate and the Hub and original extension cable plugged in to that. The Hub is reporting a noise margin now of 12.7dB - best for a long time 😀 , and the hall telephone is currently quiet.

So, did I wire the new cable up incorrectly - or are both of my mk4 faceplates faulty? Or am I missing something in my fault finding?

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

imjolly — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 12:59:18 GMT

The master connection just use terminals 2&5 and ignore 3 then connect same colour wires to terminals 2&5 in extension socket and that should be OK an noise margin of 6db is normal unless your attainable speed is well above your actual speed

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 13:39:58 GMT

@imjolly

Are you saying that connecting to terminals 2 and 5 on the part of the Openreach box still screwed to the wall should have worked? It did not - that was the first connection that I made, and the phone in the hall was dead.

The phone only worked when I connected the wires to the terminals marked A and B on the back of the removable faceplate.

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Starwire — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:03:57 GMT

You wired it correctly the first time, you shouldn’t really wire it using the A and B Terminals on the back plate. If an Openreach Engineer found that they’d remove them and then most likely raise a visit charge for correcting it.

Did you make sure the cable went completely into both little holes on the NTE5c Front Plate?

They're fiddly and sometimes don’t make a connection correctly.

Although it could potentially be the MK4 SSFP. They’re prone to breaking easily from surges of voltage, not necessarily high voltage either.

A lot of Openreach Engineers install them thinking they’re a wonder product when in reality they’re not. The only time it’s really appropriate to install them is to eliminate Bridge Taps, aka Star Wiring, which you don’t have so a standard 5c plate and Micro Filters would be more than sufficient.

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:33:22 GMT

@Starwire

I'm getting a bit confused now regarding "back plate" and "front plate"

To clarify, initially I removed what I thought was called the "faceplate", (labelled "openreach MK4" and with 2 sockets on the front), and saw on the plate still fixed to the box on the wall, (marked Master Socket 5C), an engineers test phone socket and a flap with 3 insulation displacement terminals labelled 5,3 and 2. This is what I connected to first, but it did not seem to work?

Looking at what I bought from eBay last week, which looks identical to what Openreach originally fitted, I can see on the back of the Master Socket 5C two IDC terminals marked A and B - these are not the terminals that I tried and got to work, I would have had to remove "backplate" from the mounting box to do that. Are these the terminals that you said I should not wire to? (I didn't).

What did work for me though in terms of the telephone working, (albeit with the Hub's noise measurement dropping significantly), was to connect to the two IDC terminals on the back of the "faceplate" marked "openreach MK4", which confusingly are also labelled A and B.

I think I did make a good connection each time - when I removed the wires and examined them I could see metal conductors through the insulation on each wire.

Should I try again using the terminals marked 2,3 and 5 on the front of the "backplate" or are the 2 on the back of the "faceplate" the correct ones?

I hope this makes sense! 😉

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Starwire — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:42:15 GMT

Did you use the AB Terminals on the MK4 SSFP?

Thats for when you want to wire up an RJ11/45 Data Extension Socket for your Router. It’s not for a Phone Extension.

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:52:46 GMT

Yes, I used the AB terminals on the MK4 "faceplate" - they were the only ones that seemed to work? What does "SSFP" stand for?

To clarify, should I try again using the terminals labelled 2,3 and 5 on the front of the "backplate" (the one marked "Master Socket 5C")?

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Starwire — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 18:09:29 GMT

Service

Specific

Front

Plate

And yes, to connect Phone Extension Cabling it should be on the 2 and 5 Terminals of the 5c Socket.

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

imjolly — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 18:58:49 GMT

You appear to be using a master socket as an extension socket whereas you should only have 1 master socket on your line

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 19:37:00 GMT

@Starwire

Thanks for clarifying.

@imjolly

No, I'm not trying to use a master socket as an extension - I have a completely separate secondary socket for that. I think that this confusion is because I have been referring to the master socket that I bought on eBay last week? That socket was purchased as a spare faceplate, (but came as a complete unit), due to regular noise problems I have been experiencing with the original faceplate, (see my original post). The new socket looks exactly the same as the existing, so it is easier to use that to describe the connections I used each time and their labels on the socket. Since buying it, I have decided to try hard wiring the extension.

A couple more questions please before I have another go at wiring this up again:

1.) If I wire the extension cable to the terminals on the 5C socket, does that still go via the filter in the master socket? In other words, will the telephone on the extension socket need a separate broadband filter?

2.) I have been breaking my broadband connection quite a few times today trying to resolve this issue. I have seen from other threads on these forums that this can be interpreted by equipment in the FTTC cabinet as a fault and the line speed gets lowered? Should I wait a while before disconnecting the broadband to avoid this? If so, how many days is recommended to allow the cabinet to see a stable line?

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

imjolly — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 21:29:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Starwire

Thanks for clarifying.

@imjolly

No, I'm not trying to use a master socket as an extension - I have a completely separate secondary socket for that. I think that this confusion is because I have been referring to the master socket that I bought on eBay last week? That socket was purchased as a spare faceplate, (but came as a complete unit), due to regular noise problems I have been experiencing with the original faceplate, (see my original post). The new socket looks exactly the same as the existing, so it is easier to use that to describe the connections I used each time and their labels on the socket. Since buying it, I have decided to try hard wiring the extension.

A couple more questions please before I have another go at wiring this up again:

1.) If I wire the extension cable to the terminals on the 5C socket, does that still go via the filter in the master socket? In other words, will the telephone on the extension socket need a separate broadband filter?

2.) I have been breaking my broadband connection quite a few times today trying to resolve this issue. I have seen from other threads on these forums that this can be interpreted by equipment in the FTTC cabinet as a fault and the line speed gets lowered? Should I wait a while before disconnecting the broadband to avoid this? If so, how many days is recommended to allow the cabinet to see a stable line?

From you previous descriptions of your extension socket it certainly sounds like another master being used as extension socket

If you connect to terminals 2&5 in master and to terminals 2&5 in extension then no filter required

I would wait 24hrs before trying your rewiring again. If DLM thinks there is a problem with connection dropping you may end up in banded profile which could take weeks to recover from

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 06:49:48 GMT

@imjolly

Thanks - I'm going to give it a couple of days just to be sure!

One other thing:

I'm considering adding a second extension socket in another room, (there would only be a maximum of 2 telephones connected, so I don't think REN would be a problem). Is it OK to cable this extension from the first extension socket, or should each socket have its own cable directly back to the master socket?

ie, what I am proposing to do:

Master Socket >>>>> 1st Extension >>>>> 2nd Extension

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

imjolly — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:08:22 GMT

@Anonymous

that's ok just same again terminal 2&5 in first extension just has 2 wires in each and then connect to Terminals 2&5 in 2nd extension and should be ok

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:11:05 GMT

@imjolly

Thanks - I'll report back in a few days when I have had another go!

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

DaveS1234 — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:35:31 GMT

Hi Paul608085

Just a quick thought - When using 2 & 5 on the backplate IDC terminals the front filter section has be be replaced to get a connection. The incoming signal comes through the conventional contacts in the test socket into the front section filter - the filtered signal then returns to the back plate through additional contacts (on the lower surface of the test connector I believe) to the IDC block.

It has caught people out in the past.

Dave

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 11:46:54 GMT

@DaveS1234

Prompted by your reply I have had a closer look at my spare faceplate and socket - with a magnifying glass!

I can see now that both the engineer's test socket on the backplate and the corresponding plug on the faceplate do indeed have a separate row of contacts on the opposite side from the conventional contacts!

I can't be certain, but what has almost certainly happened is that I didn't put the faceplate back on when I tested the newly wired extension - Doh!

As someone said earlier in this thread, I probably had it right first time, (but didn't realise it!).

The hub resynced again overnight, and is currently at the best it has been for a long, long time, (I keep a daily record), so I'm going to give it at least another day before I risk breaking it down again.

Re: Have I Wired My Extensions Incorrectly - Or Do I Have 2 Faulty Faceplates?

Anonymous — Thu, 05 Aug 2021 07:42:49 GMT

To close this thread off, I have just reconnected my extension wiring using terminals 2 and 5 on the front of the 5c's backplate. After replacing the mk4 faceplate, the extensions work!

My previous post in this thread, (the one where it became obvious that I had made a c**k-up the first time, and had it right initially was my 250th on these forums. Apparently, that now earns me the rank of "Expert" - Hmmm...

I'm sure that I'm not the only one to see the irony in that 😀

Thanks to all for your help, (as always!).