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DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 12:00:43 GMT

Unlike my previous analog cordless phone which communicated by radio with its base, I understand that my Digital Voice phone communicates wirelessly with my Smart Hub 2. What occurs to me as a security issue is this, rather like bluetooth pairing. To initiate the process of registering my DV phone I have to press the WPS button for two seconds. During the subsequent period a neighbour (within earshot I suppose) may potentially register his own phone and free-ride on my hub and my telephone account. The Hub Manager I think allows me to delete an alien device from my hub's list, but I would first have to suspect that there was a free-rider present. Is this a serious issue with DV?

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Keith_Beddoe — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 12:01:04 GMT

@Art_Nouveau

Its not Wifi, its DECT, just like any cordless phone system and just as secure. The WPS button is dual purpose.

The same thing could happen on a DECT system if a user had the same type of phone. DECT has been around for a very long time now.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 12:07:44 GMT

Thank you Keith for the emphasis, but underlying wireless technology is not my concern. It is the seemingly vulnerable period during registration of the DV phone.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

licquorice — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 13:04:37 GMT

Which is exactly the same as registering any cordless phone, which have been around for donkeys years, to its dect base station.

How great do you think the chances are of somebody close to trying to register a Dect phone at precisely the same few seconds as you?

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 13:16:57 GMT

I looked up the manual for my old cordless phone, a BT Graphite 2500, which states: "The main handset is pre-registered to the base as Handset 1" and "Any additional handsets supplied as part of a multipack are pre-registered to the base." This sounds reasonably secure to me. I should not worry too much about someone intercepting my calls, I have few secrets, but if they hijacked my account and started making international calls I might be justifiably furious! Will BT let me out of paying their bill? I think they ought to tighten up the registration process for DV.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 13:22:50 GMT

Hello licquorice. I agree that it is unlikely but, as we know, unlikely does not mean impossible. Long odds do turn up. In some people's homes neighbours may have audibility (partners calling to one another as they set up) in addition to radio proximity.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

imjolly — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 13:39:31 GMT

any phones registered to the SH2 base will show when you go to hub manager the select your phone number

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Thu, 07 Oct 2021 21:57:06 GMT

Hello imjolly. There is nothing on my Hub Manager at the moment as I am expecting the DV service to start tomorrow. If BT would introduce a sensible precaution, such as requiring the authorised user to demonstrate that he has control of both devices when pairing (or registering in this case), I think the risk of piracy, deliberate or accidental, would be minimised.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

licquorice — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 07:27:51 GMT

Do you seriously think BT are going to go to the expense of changing firmware to prevent something that is an infinitesimal risk that somebody out of sight is going to pair a Dect phone at the exact same instant that you do?

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

imjolly — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 08:57:24 GMT

so at the moment you do not have digital voice and until active you cannot register your phones to the SH2 when you do register you will see them appear by selecting your phone number in hub manager then the connected phones will appear under handsets

I suppose with your suspicious mind you could wait until middle of night before registering phone!

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 12:37:02 GMT

@imjolly

The DV service started up this morning about 6am (my new phone was already registered) and I was able to find it in the Hub Manager, de-register it, and then re-register. One big question for security was answered. Aside from this, I connected my plug-in phone to the back of my SH2. It worked, but it did not appear in the Hub Manager, neither in the usual place as a hub-connected devices nor as a DV telephone device. I was able to make an adjustment from MyBT account to change the number of rings before calls were automatically answered.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 12:49:49 GMT

Does BT seriously think that, after 72 years of human experience, I am eager to pay by direct debit for the dubious experience of being press-ganged into a half-baked DV service which has deprived me of a perfectly useable system that worked even in an emergency during which the power failed (I was flooded in 2019)? Yes, if I were at BT in charge of this project I would look to improve security sharpish and include some fixes in a future edition of firmware.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

licquorice — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:11:41 GMT

If you think that registering a DV phone is a security risk, I have no idea why you are using the internet at all with its attendant multitude of real rather than imagined security risks. The registration of a DV handset doesn't even register in the noise!

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:24:35 GMT

licquorice, dear chap, it would be quicker for BT to revise their firmware than it would be for us to end this discussion. "The registration of a DV handset doesn't even register in the noise!" This sounds like the next problem to me. Tower of Babel!

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

licquorice — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:29:41 GMT

It will probably be quicker for hell to freeze over than BT change how handsets are registered. 😀

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

Art_Nouveau — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 21:01:26 GMT

I know nothing of your relationship with BT, licquorice, but I would guess 'retired BT engineer on modest retainer as BT Community sage'? The security of my telephone account is obviously a major concern when a change is made to the telephone system. If I were in BT's position as the client of a technical development team, or even in my own position as a small customer of BT, I would expect a system to be developed in consultation with me. So far as I know, BT did not consult its customers over the DV system which BT wished to implement so as to release some real-estate in the form of telephone exchanges. What we have now is the idiotic spectacle of 'acceptance testing after roll-out'. Confusion, acrimony and possibly legal action might follow. Why was my local voicemail device replaced by a remote voicemail service which keeps my messages for only 24 hours? Why must I install a further device, a UPS containing I presume a substantial lithium-ion battery, in order to preserve my emergency phone facility? Why must I tolerate dodgy wireless security? Why must so many electrical socket outlets in my home be permanently occupied by BT equipment? Why, when I have an unlimited broadband plus weekend calls tariff, should I pay for a telephone service that works as internet?

Just a few gripes. The sound quality with DV is of course more than adequate but ... shouldn't it be in stereo sound with video?

Re: DV phone security - flats and HMO dwellings

licquorice — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 21:30:01 GMT

Retainer would be nice, alas I am just another customer like you.