This topic

FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Adrian-C — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:52:31 GMT

We live in a very rural area of the Welsh borders, and have FTTP broadband.

BT have just informed us that we are being moved from copper voice provision to digital over fibre.

Since we have precisely zero mobile signal on any network at all, this will leave us with zero phone connection in the event of a power or broadband outage.

Is there any way that we can get BT to retain our copper phone line...?

Copper is clearly going to have to be retained in this area, since there are plenty of properties who are not connected to FTTP - or are outside of the reach of the fibre...

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

imjolly — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 13:08:00 GMT

it is openreach that is driving the move from copper lines to VOIP and the expected closure 2025

this explains

https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/blog/the-end-of-analogue-phone-lines-pt1

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 13:15:06 GMT

@Adrian-C

Retaining the copper connection is not an option any more, as the phone equipment in the exchange is being de-commissioned. That is going to affect everyone, even on standard broadband.

BT can supply a power unit which will keep the BT Smart Hub 2 powered up, in the event of a power failure, if you are classed as vulnerable, or have a care alarm, otherwise you will have to purchase your own unit.

https://shop.bt.com/products/cyberpower-back-up-for-bt-digital-voice-service--non-fttp--091297-FV54.html?ReferrerID=G600&utm_source=btcom&utm_medium=bt+marketing&utm_campaign=digital+voice+non+fttp&utm_content=G600

Your Openreach modem may already have battery backup, but if not, then you would need to provide power to that as well.

Something like the Cyberpower BR700ELCD-UK (about £81) would seem more suitable, as you could also plug in any mains powered phones as well.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Adrian-C — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 13:24:08 GMT

I certainly understand the drive to move, where FTTP is available...

The issue here is that we have zero mobile signal. We have no alternative communication.

For much of the village, fibre is not available, and for some outlying properties, there is not even any viable ADSL connection due to distance from exchange (no street cabs...)

Keith - the device you link to says...
"Sorry this product is no longer available
We’re really sorry but we’ve sold out of this product and are unable to obtain more stock. In most cases this is usually because the manufacturer has discontinued the product."

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:12:17 GMT

@Adrian-C

There are other mains UPS available.

The one I suggested Cyberpower BR700ELCD-UK Available from Amazon

https://www.cyberpower.com/uk/en/product/sku/br700elcd-uk

Amazon Basics Line-Interactive UPS-550VA with Shutdown Software and Surge Protection, UK Outlets

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:15:08 GMT

@Adrian-C

See https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Digital/Digital-Voice-and-power-cuts-mitigation/m-p/2185952#M78923

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Adrian-C — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:30:08 GMT

Yes, a UPS will mitigate against power cuts... but is no use against broadband outages.

Right now, we have absolutely resilient phone.

After this, the expected resilience is clearly to use a mobile...

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Andy005 — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:47:52 GMT

Your current phone line @Adrian-C isn't exempt from faults, so in the event of that happening you would still have to rely on a mobile or wait for the fault to be fixed.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Adrian-C — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:53:19 GMT

That is true. But copper is FAR more resilient than fibre broadband. Especially round here.

Last time it failed, it was because the fibre bundle had fallen off a pole and was lying in the road. Literally. That took the thick end of a week to get half of the village on.

Not much stops copper, no matter how crackly the actual connection...

Then there's those who live past the end of the fibre, some with absolutely no ADSL connectivity at all. There are people in this village whose only option is satellite - cellular requires a high-gain antenna on top of a 4-5 metre tall mast.

BT have come back to me via other channels to confirm their utter indifference, and their unwillingness to do anything.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Andy005 — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 15:04:05 GMT

@Adrian-Cwrote:
That is true. But copper is FAR more resilient than fibre broadband. Especially round here.

Last time it failed, it was because the fibre bundle had fallen off a pole and was lying in the road. Literally. That took the thick end of a week to get half of the village on.

Not much stops copper, no matter how crackly the actual connection...

Then there's those who live past the end of the fibre, some with absolutely no ADSL connectivity at all. There are people in this village whose only option is satellite - cellular requires a high-gain antenna on top of a 4-5 metre tall mast.

BT have come back to me via other channels to confirm their utter indifference, and their unwillingness to do anything.

Well the human factor is always a risk, such as not fixing something correctly. In my case an Openreach engineer was trying to fix a line fault for a house around the corner, he got into a pickle, unplugged my line and went home.

I've had DV for two years and not had a problem, clearly though some areas are more prone to power outages etc, but as Ofcom have approved it it's going to happen.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Will168 — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 15:49:27 GMT

@Adrian-C Unfortunately, I’m not sure there is much BT can actually do about it. They cannot keep you on copper forever, as it will be completely switched off in 2025. It’s not a BT thing, it’s a telecoms industry thing. You could maybe get another 3 years at best and then you’d have the same issue in 2025 anyway.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 16:20:19 GMT

Just to reiterate, its the analogue PSTN network which is closing down, not the copper network. Copper will be in the network for a long time yet, as there are some special services that need a copper connection, which do not have an alternative at the moment.

The PSTN equipment in the exchanges, consisting of System X, AXE10 etc, have been in use since 1980, and is very expensive to maintain, spares are not available, and they do not integrate well into other phone networks any more. They also take up a lot of valuable space in exchange buildings, and removing it, could enable buildings to be sold.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Will168 — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 16:26:49 GMT

Yes sorry, I meant the analogue PSTN is closing down in 2025.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Adrian-C — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:34:19 GMT

OFCOM are, indeed, insisting on this. By the end of 2025, four years away.

You'd think there were higher priorities than an exchange that's no more than a brick shed in a field, serving fewer than 500 properties, all directly connected with not a single street cab, some of which are five miles away...

Meanwhile, I've had another direct reply from BT basically telling me that I'm lying about having zero mobile signal, because the coverage maps show good 4G signal at my postcode.
<sigh>
I'll remember that next time I have to go for a walk up the lane in order to receive a text message.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

ChrisGee — Sat, 06 Nov 2021 09:54:14 GMT

@Keith_Beddoe Keith, would the power supply you have quoted maintain a working phone if used to power a BT Smart hub 2? I’m not to knowledgeable regarding telecoms stuff, could you tell me what and where an Openrerach modem would be used? I presume that i don’t have one but these days who knows 😳 thanks for your info it’s the first helpful post i have read so far.👍 BTW that power supply is on Amazon for around £77.

Re: FTTP - move to digital voice, no mobile signal

Keith_Beddoe — Sat, 06 Nov 2021 10:11:47 GMT

A mains output UPS will have more than enough capacity to supply low powered equipment like the home hub, Openreach modem (FTTP only ), and mains powered phones.

Mains UPS are mainly used for fairly high power equipment like desktop PCS, to allow them to shut down gracefully.

See feedback on this thread https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Digital/Digital-Voice-and-power-cuts-mitigation/m-p/2185952#M78923