This topic

ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:50:45 GMT

I have just been looking up BT's various help pages for setting up DV with latest SH2 see https://www.bt.com/help/landline/digital-voice--how-do-i-set-up-my-service- and this shows the Smart Hub connected to a master socket using a filter and ADSL of course. I thought that when we are told that our switchover is imminent the Broadband to the house would be changed to Fibre Broadband in order for the system to work.

Will ADSL 18Mbps still always be available to operate the new DV system with say you DECT phone plugged into the SH2 directly because the diagram does not show this although I realise the link above is about using a DV phone.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

imjolly — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:53:15 GMT

your DV phone will work with adsl just plug phone into socket on back of SH2 not master socket there is no automatic change to FTTP or FTTC just for DV

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

gg30340 — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 13:55:17 GMT

Digital Voice is an Internet Phone Service. It does not need the old telephone exchanges instead it uses your broadband service regardless of how that is delivered.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:03:22 GMT

Thanks for that but I don't particularly need to use a DV phone then as I just want to plug my existing Cordless BT DECT phone and base station into the Smart Hub 2.

I thought the DV phone from BT communicates, for set-up and operation by communicating with the DECT feature built into the SH2?

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:08:26 GMT

So ADSL Broadband will always be available then? The PSTN service will no longer be available at our Master socket.

Well, i got that completely wrong then and there was me looking at BT Fibre Broadband packages from which I would have to choose.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

gg30340 — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:19:22 GMT

ADSL won't always be available. At some point in the future it will be FTTC or FTTP.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:49:00 GMT

I assume then that 18Mbps or less will be OK for the operation of the Digital Voice system whether one uses one's own phone or has the DV handsets. In my current set-up I'll lose my hall phone with Speakerphone that is nowhere near any power socket but works from the line voltage from the master socket just below the hall table. My current DECT cordless phone runs of an extension lead in another room where there is power and it's 'satellite' phone in plugged in for power only, elsewhere. Oh well, that's progress for you.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

Keith_Beddoe — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:55:37 GMT

If its like the old Broadband Talk service, then typically 64Kbs are used for a single voice path. If you are using HD voice to another BT DV user, then 128Kbs is possible.

Voice is given priority, but you are unlikely to notice any speed difference.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

iniltous — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 14:59:59 GMT

The copper pair to full fibre rollout and PSTN to DV rollout are not the same thing , the old telephone exchange equipment is being retired, and an all IP ( internet protocol ) taking its place , BT are calling their version Digital Voice , this requires you to plug a phone into the router not the wall socket , and should be completed by December 2025.

It will be many years before everyone has access to ‘full fibre’ , but the bandwidth that DV requires is very small so even ADSL connections ( let alone FTTC ) is more than capable of powering DV , so for many the copper pair will still be used , but it will be a broadband connection with IP telephony for those that want a phone service , even landline only customers will be on a version of broadband.

The FTTP network is expanding all the time , if someone does have access to FTTP , they can upgrade to it at anytime , at some point in the future it may be compulsory to make the change if it’s available but it’s not compulsory now.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:17:45 GMT

Sorry to go back to this point again but when Googling about this changeover to DV in general, I keep on seeing that ADSL in December 2025 will also cease to be available, say over my existing Copper wire connection to my house or to anyone else that has ADSL.

This information comes from various sources and links but would seem to suggest that by that date the whole existing Copper network providing telephony will end which I understand but I am still not quite sure if ADSL will still be available to my house as it does at present.

If that is this case then myself and many others will be forced to get a Fibre connection instead in order to access the Internet etc.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

imjolly — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:26:43 GMT

it is only the phone PSTN that will cease and you will still be able to get adsl broadband until the eventual conversion to fibre

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

Keith_Beddoe — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:34:37 GMT

@HHGTTG

There is a lot of misleading information on the Internet.

Copper is going to be around for a very long time, probably forever.

As far as ADSL is concerned, unless you renew your contract, or your exchange becomes a fibre only one, then ADSL is always going to be an option where there are copper MSANS installed in the exchange building. That covers most of the main exchange buildings. Some small rural exchanges will eventually close, once fibre is available to all of its customers.

In fact, with the closure of the PSTN network, the MSANs are going to have to supply a basic 500kb broadband service to provide a phone service for customers that only want a phone service, and not broadband. MSAN (Multi Service Access Node) can be configured for a wide range of services.

There is never going to be sufficient capacity in the FTTC fibre cabinets to supply all of the phone customers.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

Crimliar — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:41:09 GMT

There are a number of different letters that have gone out to homeowners in this area (Teesside) related to impending POTS (Plain Old Telephone System) changes.

In laws, nice large house on a main road but are currently only able to get ADSL2 have been informed if they do nothing their connection will be switched to VDSL2 (which they currently couldn't get if they wanted) with Digital Voice and they'll get a new router and phone. ADSL depends on infrastructure at the phone exchange, VDSL potentially doesn't even though it uses the existing copper phone lines to the property. *As they have the boxes for OR, CF, & VM in a row just off their property they'll probably be offered FTTP very very shortly.

The letter we received last year (5yo house) was to the effect that we would at some point in the future move to either FTTP or Mobile provided broadband as the phone line provided service was to be decommissioned).

The changes are happening, but it's still not one size fits all!

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

iniltous — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 12:40:17 GMT

The PSTN switch off by the end of December 2025 ‘may’ require some consumers to be migrated to SoTAP , (single order transitional product ) , in areas where FTTC isn’t available ( E/O lines , or cabinets with so few customer that would make FTTC uneconomic ) then SoGEA wont be available but DV landline or broadband service needs to be provided.

In majority of cases after PSTN switch off , those still on copper , will be SoGEA , only using the copper pair ( the D side ) from the cabinet to the property, the E side to the exchange redundant, those on SoTAP will be using the exchange based ADSL/ADSL2 equipment, so the E side copper cable to the cabinet as well as the D side from the cabinet to the property will be used , but as with SoGEA , the telephony will be DV .

As stated , there is quite a lot of incorrect information on line , some of it , presumably designed deliberately to get customers to switch before December 2025 , basically ‘frightening’ them to switch using nonsense about after 2025 your phone line won’t work , unfortunately there are some that even with constant reassurance, chose to believe the B.S

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 12:50:44 GMT

Thanks for all your expertise using technical language with which I'm not fully familiar though better informed than I was a few weeks ago thanks to you folks here. The information is gratefully received and I appreciate that. On the positive side and being nearly 86 I might not be around for some of these events, who knows?

Anyway keeping ADSL running for a while yet would certainly make my life easier with placement of my existing telephones and the BT Hub 2 when it eventually comes through my letterbox.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

iniltous — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:45:43 GMT

ADSL/ADSL2 or VDSL ( FTTC ) is almost a distinction without a difference when it comes to the PSTN switch off , BT Digital Voice is Internet Protocol ( IP ) and only needs a small amount of bandwidth to operate, so even a relatively small bandwidth product like ADSL can easily handle DV , BT ADSL will continue in locations where there are BT customers with no FTTC or FTTP alternatives.

When December 2025 comes around there is no reason for any BT customer to fear being ‘disconnected’ there are legitimate worry’s some may have about a phone service being dependent on ‘broadband’, but this is really a worry about failure of mains power in the home , and that can be addressed for those fearing this and who genuinely have no mobile coverage, by using a battery back up ( BBS ) (UPS ) uninterruptible power supply , and if that will not supplied free by BT because the customer doesn’t qualify for ‘free’ , they can always purchase one themselves.

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

chrisjp — Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:01:06 GMT

BT's own publicity about the switch to DV also talks about "getting rid of the outdated old copper network", so it's natural to assume that when you are told that your conversion to DV is imminent, BT is going to run a fibre optic cable to your house to give FTTP.
I'd had FTTC and an analogue phone line for a number of years and, when I got my DV conversion letter, I assumed I was going to be upgraded to FTTP. Quite disappointed when I realised I would be staying with FTTC and it was just the phone line that was moving to digital!

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

wkirkman — Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:07:21 GMT

The idea certainly is that you will go to FTTP when available, though until mandatory, you would have to 'choose' to move to it when available. The DV change is a prelude to this, because it is a lot easier to get all phones onto IP first, because then it doesn't matter what the mode of delivery is… copper… fibre… doesn't matter, they can decommission the PSTN equipment at the exchanges. THEN, once they know there are no PSTN connections still, they can quite happily know that swapping someone from copper to fibre, then pulling out the copper, will not deprive anyone of a phone service — theory, of course, though in practice not far off. (Excepting those who it would appear have disabilities and all live on the edges of cliffs in places where they need extreme medical attention but have no mode of communication with the outside world except for a copper phone line that they always use during very frequent power cuts… as exampled throughout this community forum.)

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

HHGTTG — Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:14:35 GMT

So what would have happened had you been in my position and was sticking with ADSL (hopefully) for the time being, just ignore pressure sales guff from BT and set up my phone/s and plug into the green socket on the SH2 (or via a DV adapter) when the day comes?

Re: ADSL Broadband after changeover

wkirkman — Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:25:41 GMT

As far as I am aware they aren't removing the equipment for ADSL2 signalling. So, there is no reason for you to upgrade to VDSL2 unless you wanted to take advantage of the speed increase. The only thing being systematically removed at the moment is the Public Switched Telephone Network. If you were on Dial Up, then Dial Up relies upon the PSTN in which case I would say you would need to move, but xDSL is still a sold and working technology. Openreach already have the technology ready to go to offer Digital Voice over ADSL (you can search online for it from ISPReview recently — I don't have the link to hand), but when/how they implement I'm not sure. If you hang on to the bitter end you will at some point have the face the choice of VoIP or no phone… but most people will have changed over way before the bitter end because they are making it easy to do so for the majority.