This topic

Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Sat, 14 Jun 2025 14:12:21 GMT

I would like to document the status so far of the mess they have made of moving my phone line and broadband from Surfanytime/Intec to BT.

Despite promises of "easy switch" (using the same ADSL wires after all) on 10th June, the broadband has yet to work. I have now made 5 or 6 support calls, and 3 online chats, plus an engineer visit on Friday 13th (!) which did not actually materialise at my property.

1) On 10th the broadband did not work. I rang and was (incorrectly) advised I needed to use the BT smart hub, rather than my Draytek modem/router. I knew this was rubbish, but unpacked and installed the hub anyway. I could already see that the issue was no PPP connection being established, which is not router related.

2) It did not work. So I rang again and was told it might not work until 23:59.

3) It still was not working so I rang again on 11th, and the support person remotely restarted my router. Eventually performed a line test and told me there was a fault at my property, an engineer would be needed. Engineer booked for 1-6pm 13th. I told them one more time the problem was CONFIGURATION AT YOUR EXCHANGE (DSLAM, B-RAS, or Routers).

4) Chat ensued later on the 12th (txt copies available), hub was factory reset, still nobody in support who actually understands the issue.

5) At 5:45 on 13th no engineer. Online fault tracking shows update 17:35, but if you click 'details' it lies about the engineer having been and the fault fixed, neither true. I rang again and was assured engineer still coming.

6) After 6pm, no engineer, so another chat session, at which I was informed engineer had not needed to visit fault was outside my property. However fix was delayed until 17th, PM.

7) I later got an email saying an (other!) engineer visit was needed, please book one. So I start another chat session to ask 'WTF is going on', and was told senior engineer needed, can't get one until Tuesday 18th. Now booked.

Look the problem is clearly an incorrect configuration change. The line and adsl worked fine into a UK-ADSL logon portal. BT changed it, and it is broken. My router (and the BT hub) report a perfectly good DSL signal at 4.5mb/s back to the DSLAM (or whatever equivalent is used these days) but LCP requests to establish a PPP session are not getting anywhere. The hub shows:

19:41:23, 01 Oct.
PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
19:41:20, 01 Oct.
PPP LCP Send Configuration Request

(Never worked so has not managed to set a correct date/time!)

Draytek router has LOTS more debug info but basically the same story - PPP session request sent into black hole.

How can I get BT to please arrange for =someone who actually knows what they are doing= to actually contact me (the landline works fine, despite that being listed as the problem on all the fault reports - apparently ADSL failts all get sent to Openreach as 'no dial tone' or similar.

CS support staff in the UK is definitely an improvement over the ones they used to have in India, but they remain technically clueless and just follow a 'what colour is the lights, please reset... etc' script instead of actually listening to the customer and being able to fix it. Openreach, who ought to understand, are apparently forbidden to talk to me.

Oh, and there are no working email addresses for talking to BT - send post letter to their office address? How 19th century!!

p.s. my main email address on a livemail domain is apparently not acceptable to the community for verification??

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

Manatarms84 — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:30:45 GMT

Your contract is with BT, Openreach own the network and do no speak to customers.

Customer care have a job to do and that will mean they have to ask a set of questions as for instance different colour lights on the router will mean different things. You were keen to speak to openreach but it was them who attended the fault and reported the issue as fixed to BT, BT were not the ones reporting your issue is fixed.

Call technical support and advise the issue is not resolved and they will investigate further but you will need to make sure BT equipment is the one plugged in before they can help

You sound like you know your stuff but you will get more from customer services if you go in and co operate with what they are asking for, just easier and quicker all round (speaking from years of call centre work in another industry)

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 14:39:40 GMT

Nobody reported the fault as fixed, that was just what the bt fault tracking system shows if you click on 'detail'.. like much of the rest of their systems, broken.

Yes I know openreach own and operate most of the equipment, but i am not sure who makes, or is responsible for, the config changes to move a ADSL customer from one ISP to a new one. Whoever it is, they are the ones I need some action from, not some poor clueless girl working a script in Ireland.

Did you look at BT reviews on trustpilot recently? I know more people go there to complain than to say 'well done', but BTs score is awful, makes British Gas and Easyjet look good.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

imjolly — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:09:27 GMT

@GSV3MiaC

can I ask if you used the method set out by OFCOM where you just place order with new ISP and they inform existing ISP they are taking over the connection or did you first notify your existing ISP you were leaving before/as you placed order with BT?

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 16:24:47 GMT

Yes, that is the method I used. I did not inform my old isp until bt picked up the order, at which point my old isp asked for confirmation and a final payment.

The automated online system did not recognise intec as an option, so it had to go thru the old fashioned manual way, but it went thru. The phone line and number moved just fine. The broadband screwed up. As I said the adsl part as far as the exchange (still) works fine.. 4.6 bits/s, which is all 3km of copper is good for. The PPP connection goes nowhere.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

iniltous — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 20:28:11 GMT

Perhaps you can provide some clarity, Surf any time went out of business in 2021 and Intec don’t appear to be an ISP , so can you confirm who you had a working service with to migrate to BT .

You say your telephone service is OK but no ‘internet’ , it shouldn’t be possible to still have a PSTN phone service , so is your telephone service OK and working via the new SH2 , so basically it’s now via BT’s Digital Voice or is your telephone still via the master socket , if it is via the master socket what makes you say the telephone was moved OK as that would suggest your phone service hasn’t been moved at all .

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 21:42:48 GMT

SurfAnytime were bought by firefly, who were bought by intec business, who were my isp (via a uk-adsl login portal.. Same one as surfanytime originally gave me) until 9th June.

BT (failed to) take over on 10th.

This is a copper adsl line, with, yes, a pstn telephone (3 extensions). You are obviously not familiar with the state of play out here in the wilds of Shropshire, where 'fibre to a nearby village' (ftnv) is still a distant (2027 maybe) dream, and pstn still rules.

P. S. But I THINK they have replaced the Strowger switches now.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

iniltous — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 22:37:49 GMT

It’s not possible, even in your exchange area to move provider and stay on PSTN/WLR , you say your telephone service moved successfully, how are you judging that as dialtone sounds the same irrespective of provider on PSTN/WLR and you state it’s still being provided to the master socket .

WLR stop sell means that any new or migrated telephony service will be SOGEA or SoTAP , in your case , presumably there is no SoGEA ( fibre to the cabinet without PSTN /WLR telephony ) available either because you have an E/O line or the distance you are from the ‘cabinet ‘ would make that a poorer choice , that’s assuming what you state is correct , that it’s the equivalent of ADSL you should be getting , which is SoTAP , that is the product BT would actually order post WLR stop sell

For BT to supply you with telephony requires BTDV , TBH the evidence suggests your telephone hasn’t been migrated at all , and your telephony is exactly as it was , but for whatever reason your broadband service has been withdrawn.

FYI , the last Strowger exchange closed in 1995 and that was in rural Scotland ( 30 years ago ) , but the majority of the exchange switching estate was converted to digital in the decade before 1995, so even your exchange hasn’t had mechanical switches for nearly 4 decades.

Perhaps you would explain what makes you think your telephone is now with BT and not with your previous supplier if you are still getting a working dialtone from the master socket ?

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 06:19:38 GMT

I assume it was switched because Bt told me it was, and plan to charge me for it from 9th. Based on their performance elsewhere perhaps I should maybe not believe them?

The Stroweger comment was, a joke.. Guess I misplaced the smiley. 🙂

I Wait to see what their senior engineer does / says when (if) he shows up. My router, and theirs, claimed adsl at 448k up, 3.6m down, so I guess I have not been migrated from adsl.. or would sotap show similarly?

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 07:23:24 GMT

Ps if I ask openreach about fibre or broadband for my property I get this. SOTAP not mentioned.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

iniltous — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 08:55:20 GMT

You can check what’s available at your address here , posting the entire return will be helpful .

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

If you don’t have access to SoGEA ( effectively fibre to the cabinet without PSTN telephone ) it will not show that as an available option , SoTAP is exchange based ADSL without a legacy phone service (PSTN ) , you can get telephony from BT on both SoGEA and SoTap but has to be IP telephony , with BT that means BT Digital Voice , which is only available by using the SH2 router .

Your previous supply is unknown to myself, if it were a big brand like Sky , Vodafone or Talk Talk , it’s generally known what type of service they use (MPF or WLR ) , and therefore easy to speculate what may have happened to leave you in thus state, but as your provider is uncommon /niche I personally don’t know which it is , others may offer an opinion on that .

I suspect you haven’t actually been migrated at all ,you are still basically connected to your old ISP , and all that has happened is your old ISP has inhibited your broadband account , hence you have connectivity you can see from the router admin , but no internet access , similar to a delinquent account, basically what they do to non payers ….but strangely they have not inhibited your telephone service ….for whatever reason I suspect you are still waiting for the physical work in the exchange to connect you to BT equipment to be done by Openreach , or your old ISP has acted on the instructions to ‘remove’ you but the instructions to connect you to BT haven’t been issued to Openreach ,or issued but future dated , hence leaving you with a break in service.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

iniltous — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:14:10 GMT

Final point , your estimate, apparently for SoTap (ADSL ) is 21Mb download, this is incredibly high for ADSL and indicates a very short line length , basically adjacent (within a few 10’s of metres) to the exchange building, do you live really near to the exchange building….if you don’t (or you don’t know ) , and given your statement about living in the ‘sticks’ , is there anything vague or non standard about your address , as your problem may be a misidentified address , looking at the postcode you posted , there doesn’t seem to many ‘standard’ addresses following what would be considered the regular format of house number , street name , postal town , county , postcode , they are all somewhat unusual.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:52:33 GMT

My isp was 'firefly Ltd, trading as intec, company sc231044' (Scottish).

I am 3km from (burwarton) exchange, as the copper wire flies. On the B4364. We don't have street addresses, bugs several websites, and while bt/openreach have the full address I try not to post it on websites.

The openreach page I linked says I still have a choice of pstn or digital phone. Of course they could be lying too.

Problem with having to use the bt smart hub is that it does not support multiple ssids, vlans, manage my draytek APs, or any of the other stuff I need, so ain't going to fly.. Just want what I had, adsl connection and 3 hardwired phone extensions, which is what I signed up for.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

iniltous — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 14:31:30 GMT

If you are 3km from the exchange with ADSL2+ your predicted speed would be around 8Mb , you posted an image that shows a predicted speed 21Mb , so something is obviously incorrect, either the image showing 21Mb isn’t for your address , or your estimate of the distance to the exchange is way off ….for what it’s worth between 4 and 5km is where exchange based ADSL2 can perform better than FTTC , but we don’t know what’s available as you haven’t produced the information asked for .

If you don’t want to post the image from the BTw checker , obviously that’s up to you , people that do provide this information generally obscure their address to keep their anonymity and that way they can get assistance in interpreting the return from the checker .

I’ve no idea what you are referring to when you say an Openreach site says you have PSTN available, OR show nothing about the type of telephony available on any of their sites that I’m aware of ,(copper broadband doesn’t equal PSTN telephony , cooper pair SOGEA and SoTAP are copper but can have IP telephony if that’s required) but you seem cling to the idea that PSTN is available to new supply when it isn’t , but as you won’t post the images you supposedly have seen , we can only speculate to what it is that your are interpreting ( incorrectly in my view )

Anyway good luck with this , as you say , your post is a complaint rather than a question as to how you got to where you are now .

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 14:29:45 GMT

That 21 mbit prediction is what openreach say they offer as 'standard broadband', the pstn/digital phone is also in openreaches description. It may be BT don't offer pstn, even though openreach do.

The bt prediction for my property is the same 4-5 bits that I have always achieved. Mention of phone but not what type.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

iniltous — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 14:43:05 GMT

There is nothing on the Openreach image you posted that even mentions telephony of any type whatsoever , copper broadband doesn’t mean PSTN telephone , the image you provided presumably for your address clearly predicts 21Mb from copper broadband (so exchange based ADSL ) , which is impossible if the distance from the exchange you say is accurate, so something is obviously wrong , vague addresses on postcodes that cover a large geographic area can be way off because some parts of the postcode can be much nearer to the exchange than other parts of the same postcode , inaccurate or misleading addresses are usually the reason for obviously incorrect speed estimates , the link I provided is a much better resource ….

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 14:56:57 GMT

The PSTN/Digital phone is mentioned halfway down the checker page:

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker/standard-broadband

I did not post the whole thing, I assumed you could find it. Openreach checker just says 'we can do standard broadband' and if you ask for details, this is the (generic) page you get. Obviously 21mBit/s is 'up to' and not achievable for 99% of adsl customers, just like 'up to 70% off' never applies to most sale items.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q

iniltous — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 16:00:44 GMT

Any BT , Openreach , or BTw site where you enter a specific address gives a speed estimate for that address it’s not the generic advertising speed that the average BT customer on that product can get, if it were the figure for ADSL (country wide average ) is 17Mb , it has nothing to do with ‘upto’ speeds , the theoretical maximum for ADS2+ is 24Mb , which is not achievable in the real world, but if allowed , advertising the product would be ‘upto 24Mb’ , the ASA stopped providers using the ‘upto’ method years ago , they now have to use an equally nonsensical ‘average’ speed , and for BT on ADSL that is 17Mb , but as stated , once you put your address information in , you get an ‘proper’ estimated speed for that address not the pointless national average and certainly not the ‘upto’ speed from years ago .

….as far as telephone, it doesn’t mention what type of telephone any particular order will get , it says that analogue telephony is being phased out , and to check with the provider, this is primarily if a customer has things like an alarm that may not be compatible with IP telephony …..you used BT , therefore you are getting BTDV (that is not negotiable ) if you had an alarm that wasn’t compatible your choice is to use someone else for telephony or change the alarm, you say you have dialtone from the master socket …..BT are not supplying that , therefore it’s still from your old provider, your BT dialtone will be from the SH2 , that’s why we can state with reasonable conviction that you are not connected to BT .

BTDV is BT proprietary IP telephone service , it’s delivered via the SH2 router , not the master socket (or any socket apart from the one on the router ) Openreach can’t assume that BT will be the provider, that why they say to check with the provider and are somewhat circumspect, plus that page on the Openreach site is not your providers website , because that is BT .

Anyway , there seems to be little point in myself continuing to add this thread , you obviously are at liberty to think whatever you want .

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q

GSV3MiaC — Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:54:39 GMT

The bt site does indeed give a speed for my address, the openreach site just says 'standard broadband' which clicks thru to the link I gave. Feel free to try it with any address in this postcode.

I begin to suspect BT just can't deliver what I need, but sadly they are the only listed provider here, given 4g is hopeless. Maybe openreach can suggest another, or I just go back to intec, who are helpful but don't really want residential customers anymore.

Re: Broadband (Complaint more than a Q)

GSV3MiaC — Tue, 17 Jun 2025 14:40:48 GMT

Just to close the issue, Liam (?) from Openreach in Kingswinford (think Wolverhampton South) turned up, listened to the issue, went to the exchange, and got them to enable the PPP/router ports they (BT? Openreach? The cleaner?) had failed to enable.

Whatever received wisdom says I am back on ADSL broadband (now nearly 6 mbit/s), PSTN phone line (yes, it is possible, out here in the wilds), and blue light on the SH2, which is now retiring in favor of the Draytek 2862ac.

So it is eminently fixable, just not by BT CS staff.