This topic

BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 14:08:19 GMT

The modems (i see 10 listed) all mention LTE 4g 5g, phone stuff... The routers are indeed routers however why would BT shop not offer normal modems if their routers on offer aren't with modems, and smart hub 2 can't bridge to a router too? It's odd.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 14:14:01 GMT

Not really odd to not sell a product that would be very niche & have a limited lifespan. If you want a modem to use with FTTC just buy a used HG612 from Ebay or the like.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

licquorice — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 14:19:12 GMT

Why on earth would you look in the BT shop for routers and modems?

VDSL modems are extremely rare, as @Anonymous has said, if you want a modem for VDSL get an HG612.

If you want a router, go to Amazon.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 13:16:29 GMT

Niche? You need it to use your own router, their smart hub 2 does not no do pure modem mode i read, i see licquorice even called it a 'bodge' in an old post, i like solid performance.

We don't all live in or around london or cities where FTTP started rollout ages ago. A cheap modem will suffice till then.

Again, why would BT shop not even sell a cheap modem for a proper modem to router setup for FTTC customers. Allows a solid setup till FTTP, and keep the router for FTTP. Not everyone is scripping and scraping. Again, i do say 'cheap' modem. So for a BT shop to miss these points. Odd...

It's called having an option for those certain customers to enjoy a solid FTTC setup, with limited stock of a certain modem if need be if so niche. I guess you don't vouch for quality seeking customers and decent business practices.

I did think though that bridge mode was impossible and all customers had to seek a modem to use their own router that why i found the shop odd. I see now it is possible but is 'bodgey'. But yes, most customers aren't informed of how improper the modem mode is and use it anyway. Charming...

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 13:00:08 GMT

Why on earth would i go to a BT shop as a BT customer, when they list modems and routers? Why on earth? Have you lost all scope? I say the same to you.

I see lots of VDSL2 modems for sale, i read VDSL2 is backwards compatible to VDSL.

"TP-LINK's TD-W9970, comes with the latest VDSL2 standard, providing up to 100Mbps speed downstream and up stream. Supports VDSL/ADSL or Ethernet WAN connections,"

Seems like some can be backwards compatible.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

licquorice — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 13:26:21 GMT

Every VDSL2 modem/router on the market is compatible with BT FTTC broadband.

If you told us exactly what it is you are trying to achieve rather than making numerous seemingly unrelated posts, we might be able to suggest a solution.

It is not clear if you are looking for a modem or a modem/router.

As previously stated, VDSL modems are a rarity, effectively just the Huawei Hg612 Openreach modem, the ECI Openreach modem (most definitely not recommended) or the Draytek vigor 120.

Zyxel modem/ routers can be set to bridge mode, but pointless if you only want a modem

The 9970 you refer to us widely used by many customers

I can assure you that the BT shop is not the best source of products.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 14:09:15 GMT

You said "VDSL modems are extremely rare" when you could of then said, "Every VDSL2 modem/router on the market is compatible with BT FTTC broadband.". And there are many VDSL2 modems. I never said i was after a VDSL modem. Seems doom was made for no reason.

I did not want to achieve something for myself in this thread so much, just pointing out how the modem shop lists no real modems, of which BT know their modem mode acts like two routers, and the fact they sell quality routers, so they know what quality means but not with modems.

I just find it odd how they sell routers knowing customers want quality and then not sell a proper modem for FTTC.

I could not find a forum for this observation. Or felt it was more broadband related so put it here, as it relates to devices, of which yes, i am seeking a modem, but now knowing the smart hub 2 does modem mode, i will first read on how well it does that first, so far i read, not perfectly.

Thanks for the suggestions, i'll check them out. And, i'll look elsewhere than the BT shop (which i do anyway), i merely checked the BT shop stockpile for any outliers not found elsewhere, thinking the BT shop naturally sells better modems than what the smart hub 2 offers, like their router range does.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

licquorice — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 14:29:29 GMT

To avoid confusion, the BT smart Hub2 is a combined modem/router but it cannot be configured as purely a modem.

Most third party devices are also combined modem/routers thus there is extremely small demand for standalone VDSL modems.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 15:08:07 GMT

Ok. So a lot of modems can be routers too? I just read on reddit threads, people recommending modem router seperates, saying modem/router combos are generally value engineered. I tried to find a quality modem/router with a decent quad core CPU as i like competitive gaming, and want to squeeze out milliseconds in all my devices, as it adds up, and irons out latency spikes. The modem/router combos i saw on the web never get expensive it seemed, so assumed seperates was where proper networking grunt was. I see loads of modems, but assumed they all needed routers?

Thanks.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

licquorice — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 14:59:56 GMT

First of all could you please delete the link, it breaches forum rules regarding linking to e-commerce sites.

The devices shown are modems rather than modem/routers, the only ones suitable are the Draytek Vigor ones.

It is a matter of personal choice whether to use separate boxes or a combined box.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

Anonymous — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 15:09:14 GMT

As the old proverb says, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 15:11:42 GMT

Ok thanks. So since i can't find fast router/modem combos, since smart hub 2 is not a pure modem, i worry for that regarding performance as a bridge. Then i need seperate modem. So i'll refer to your old post and draytek vigor. Lastly to confirm, VDSL 2 modems will also work with BT FTTC? I.e. connected to master socket 5c, then to my own router? Thank you.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 15:12:24 GMT

Indeed. I agree.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

licquorice — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 15:38:27 GMT

There are numerous recommended VDSL modem/router combos, notably the Asus DSL range and Netgear Nighthawk gaming routers (whatever that means)

Personally, if you want separates, I would get an Huawei hg612 from Ebay. They may be old but they are rock solid. Don't get an unlocked one, it isn't necessary.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 16:15:06 GMT

Great ok. Thank you. I'll check this all out.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

gg30340 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 16:33:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

As the old proverb says, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

Yep, I had a laugh when I read "I just read on reddit threads, people recommending modem router seperates, saying modem/router combos are generally value engineered". when the higher end Asus modem/routers cost £250, the Draytec costs £280 etc etc.

They don't seem very "value engineered" to me!

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 16:56:01 GMT

I saw the best asus gateway £220, saw no draytec gateway. I saw no higher price than this, and was hoping so because the lone routers for £250 etc. Had quad core 1.5-1.8ghz. The gateways for £110-£230 did not sport those kind of specs, simply because you are paying for the modem too. I was hoping for a combo with a quad core 1.8ghz and above, could not find one. By value engineer we could expect curtailing of quality in the modem and router in the combo, with added cost just because it is a 'combo', hence seperates may be free of that added cost allowing for more spare coin on the engineering on the modem or router.

£250 is funny value engineering if all you do is watch TV and read BBC news i agree.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

licquorice — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:01:13 GMT

Really not sure what a high spec sooper dooper rooter brings to the party when your broadband is being delivered by a bit of wet string in the first place.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

jonnyc55 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:09:36 GMT

Well, make sure your end is clean at least. Fibre to cabinet at least. Copper to house yes, but i expect it to have more thickness then the lousy cable given by BT between socket and router, a non twisted, non shielded cable, i replaced it with a cat6a twisted shielded shorter cable. As wifi near BTs supplied RJ11 cable was painfully obvious to my gaming, my new cable removed the odd lag freezing caused by what must of been emi.

Re: BT's shop is confusing, modems, the routers etc..

gg30340 — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:09:44 GMT

@licquorice wrote:

Really not sure what a high spec sooper dooper rooter brings to the party when your broadband is being delivered by a bit of wet string in the first place.

Agreed.

While a well engineered expensive item in most but not all instances will perform better than a poorly engineered inexpensive item both items will only perform as well as the weakest link in the chain which you have eloquently pointed out.