This topic

Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

k1llah3rtz — Sat, 07 May 2022 12:03:56 GMT

Hi Folks,

Apologies for potentially posting an asked/answered question however, I'm being told by BT and Zen that due to our property already having full fibre installed, it is not possible to have a second connection installed, not even a second fibre connection.... apparently the Openreach policy/installation method changed about 18 months ago and now restrict SDU installs to a single connection....

Is this correct? Am I asking for the wrong thing?

Our property is supplied FTTP via an OH connection and has a copper line that is in the process of being re-activated << if that actually happens.

The reason why we need the second fibre connection is so that my partners company can provide her with a dedicated broadband connection which they'll pay for and then have a seperate one for all the usual non-work traffic.

TIA

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

gg30340 — Sat, 07 May 2022 12:26:45 GMT

You should be able to get a "second line" to your property even if it is a FTTP house.

The second connection would need to be a business connection if it is going to be used/paid for by your wife's employer.

See link

Broadband for Working from Home | Second Phone Line | BT

Call the BT Fibre Team on 0800 587 4787 and they should be able to answer your questions.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

licquorice — Sat, 07 May 2022 12:29:13 GMT

There is absolutely no technical reason why 2 discrete services can't be supplied via one fibre to a multi port ONT or 2 individual fibres to 2 individual ONTs.

I have no idea what Openreeach's policy is though.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

iniltous — Sat, 07 May 2022 13:29:44 GMT

When it comes to FTTP, Openreach dimension the area on the basis of 1 physical fibre connection per dwelling , if OR allowed the ordering of an extra physical connection for a second service , potentially this would be at the expense of a neighbour being unable to order a first connection, that’s why you don’t get a second live fibre into the property.

If a second service is needed a multi port ONT can be ordered (working on the existing single fibre ) this requires the second ISP to know how to order it from OR , the second connection is provided on port 2 of the ONT , ( obviously the installation of the second connection could need a single port ONT swapping out for a multi port one, if the existing installation only has a single port ONT) , the existing service remains on port 1.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

k1llah3rtz — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:44:38 GMT

Thanks for all the replies so far - would be great to see from an OR Engineer if there are any on here….

But in summary, I don’t need a second fibre line, it’s an second service on the internet existing infrastructure with a multi-port ONT. does this need a CSP to be present?

Thanks,

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

licquorice — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:55:39 GMT

The CSP will be present for the first line, it is merely a point to connect internal fibre to external fibre, it has no other function and has no bearing on the matter.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

iniltous — Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:41 GMT

There will already be a CSP for the existing service if you have FTTP , it’s simply a point where the external grade optical cable is spliced to the internal optical cable , usually a grey plastic box on an external wall , the later ones even have ‘CSP’ embossed on the cover

At the moment , the ONT will have an Ethernet cable to ( either directly or indirectly ) the WAN port of the existing router , a second service would have a second Ethernet cable from port 2 of the multi port ONT to the WAN port of the router for the second service …even if the second provider is the same as the first , you would still have 2 routers.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

k1llah3rtz — Tue, 10 May 2022 14:17:58 GMT

Hi All,

I discussed with Zen yesterday who have apparently no process for ordering a new ONT with Openreach, or rather Openreach don't have a process.... and without a new ONT, I cannot place an order for activation of the spare port on my service.

Interestingly, I found the CSP in my loft space and the ONT is on the floor below, which is annoying as ideally i'd want it on the groud floor.

As we've just moved into the property, i'm getting one connection up and running and see what the engineer has to say when he visits.

Thanks again the replies so far 🙂

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

iniltous — Tue, 10 May 2022 15:13:06 GMT

It was ( but I don’t know if it’s still is ) the case that when checking an address with existing FTTP ( on this checker )

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressFeatureProduct

it said a single port ONT exists , a multi port ONT may be ordered, looking at an address I know has FTTP on a single port ONT , the message now is ,

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. Network is at capacity so a new ONT cannot be ordered

Perhaps policy has changed and now , once a single service service is provided, that’s it as far as OR are concerned and any additional service would need to be either a leased line or provided by an alternative network provider.

If your personal broadband already existed, and your employer wanted to provide a separate connection , presumably unless they paid for a leased line they wouldn’t be able to , and for the employee to work from home they would accept that you would have to use your own residential service ( that’s what the vast majority of WFH employees do anyway ) the work traffic kept separate by the equipment/software provided by the employer.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

k1llah3rtz — Mon, 16 May 2022 10:23:28 GMT

Hi,

So I now see "ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered."

Now the question is, how can I order a new ONT...

Thanks

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

licquorice — Mon, 16 May 2022 11:25:32 GMT

You can't actually order an ONT, you have to order a new service which will entail either a replacement multi port ONT or second single port ONT being fitted.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

pippincp — Wed, 18 May 2022 09:25:19 GMT

@licquoriceYou've raised an interesting point. Where would the fibre come from for the second ONT? It can't be a splice at the CSP.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

k1llah3rtz — Wed, 18 May 2022 09:57:31 GMT

From what I’ve read, it doesn’t need a second fibre, each fibre can carry two services so just needs to be presented correctly to the ONT I believe …

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

licquorice — Wed, 18 May 2022 10:14:23 GMT

@pippincp wrote:

@licquoriceYou've raised an interesting point. Where would the fibre come from for the second ONT? It can't be a splice at the CSP.

A completely separate fibre from the CBT with its own CSP. However, there is no need for a second ONT as a multi port ONT can support multiple services.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

licquorice — Wed, 18 May 2022 10:15:32 GMT

@k1llah3rtz wrote:

From what I’ve read, it doesn’t need a second fibre, each fibre can carry two services so just needs to be presented correctly to the ONT I believe …

Correct, but the service needs to be ordered which will trigger an ONT change, you can't simply order an ONT.

Re: Second Line / Dedicated Connection not possible due to full fibre already being present

k1llah3rtz — Wed, 18 May 2022 10:19:01 GMT

Thanks.

The challenge is to find an ISP incl BT that knows how to order a second service and trigger a multiport ONT order… Zen don’t know how and BT didn’t before but maybe now there is a live service it will be easier …