This topic

Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

United77 — Sun, 15 May 2022 11:47:07 GMT

Hello,

I'm hoping someone can provide some insight into a 1 stage install for full fibre. The CS reps don't appear to able give me much information beyond "There won't be any issues".

I have underground cables rather than an overhead pole. There was a small rectangular openreach access point set just outside my driveway recently. My concern is ordering only to find out that they need to dig my driveway or garden.

Does anyone have any experience of this type of install and know roughly what I can expect?

Many Thanks

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

Starwire — Sun, 15 May 2022 13:32:29 GMT

Sounds like they’ve installed a Toby Box.

They’re installed on D.I.G (Direct in Ground) Sites as in its not Ducted and the existing Copper Cable is buried armoured cable.

You will need your front garden and or driveway dig up to provide you with service.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

jac_95 — Sun, 15 May 2022 13:40:11 GMT

Also wonder what the notes on the BT Wholesale broadband checker says for the property? https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

If WBC FTTP is available there should be some notes towards the bottom about how the existing services is supplied (e.g ducts or if overhead any line of sight issue ect...) or any anticipated issues.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

United77 — Sun, 15 May 2022 15:20:51 GMT

@Starwire and @jac_95 Thank you both for the informative replies. I think I will be giving it a miss as it sounds like it does involve digging.

Just out of interest, these are notes at the bottom of the checker.

As a fibre priority exchange, FTTP has priority over other products if available at the address

WLR is currently available at the exchange

SOADSL is restricted at the exchange

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 30 Nov 2012. The Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30 Jun 2014.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

jac_95 — Sun, 15 May 2022 15:50:30 GMT

Interestingly you are in a FTTP priority exchange area meaning all communication providers that uses Openreach's network will only be able to offer you full fibre based services and will be withdrawing copper based services. So you may end up having to go down the full fibre route at some point in the near future even if not with BT Consumer, e.g you change to Sky or TalkTalk as an example.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/product-withdrawal/stop-sells-updates

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-the-copper-network

If worried about digging up of drive, Openreach will put it back as it was.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

United77 — Sun, 15 May 2022 17:21:27 GMT

Thanks @jac_95 , that's good to know.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

iniltous — Mon, 16 May 2022 15:19:41 GMT

Is there any evidence on your property of a ducted underground feed , if it’s a ducted feed , where the duct comes up against the house wall there is normally a duct connector bend 4a , capping 25 , and cover 101a ( search for these should provide images of what they look like ) , this is the way standard underground service has been provided for 30+ years , so if your home is mid 80’s or later then this probably will be how service was provided.
When surveyed, if the surveyor could see these items on your wall , and could see your existing copper pair cable leaving the joint box in the footpath in a duct , then they indicate on the survey ( which updates the checker ) ‘UG feed with no anticipated issues’ , obviously if there is a unseen problem like the duct is blocked , then the engineer on the day may need to arrange something to resolve that, but TBH , it looks like a standard underground install and should be OK .

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

pippincp — Tue, 17 May 2022 16:32:19 GMT

If Openreach appear to have fitted a Toby box as mentioned by an actual Openreach engineer, why would you think it is ducted.

If you think the images to the duct connection are easily found why didn't you just post them? They would then stay in your gallery for any future use.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

iniltous — Tue, 17 May 2022 19:42:23 GMT

Starwire has suggested that there may be a Toby box installed , but the OP hasn’t confirmed this…also if a Toby box had been installed at the curtilage then a dig is required to get the cable /duct from the Toby box to the house wall , there are two options with a Toby box, one , it’s all soft surface ( grass ) all the way to the house wall , or if there is some hard surface and some soft , that is classified as a dig in hard surface, even if it’s only a small percentage of the total ‘dig’ , either way the initial survey says underground feed with no anticipated issues , and implies a single stage install, not an install with extra work , like digging from the Toby box to house wall.

If all that had been provided is a Toby box to the curtilage then the underground feed doesn’t exist until an order is made and one provided, all that would exist is the Toby box.

I don’t know for sure ( obviously ) but there is as much evidence to suggest a Toby box doesn’t exist, as suggesting one has been provided, it’s possible Starwire suggestion is correct, but currently we don’t know , my post simply gives the OP some info as to what a standard ducted feed looks like, ( because that’s what the survey return suggests is in place ) and the OP can check for themselves, I don’t feel the need to provide the images myself , they can easily be found if the OP is interested.

If OR solution to an area served underground but not ducted was Toby boxes , It wouldn’t be just the OP property getting a Toby box but all the non ducted property’s in the OP’s PON area would be done together , the OP may well have seen contractors digging up the pavements on OR’s behalf, and mentioned it if it were Toby boxes , perhaps the OP will update this so we will know for sure ….

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

United77 — Thu, 19 May 2022 11:48:52 GMT

Thanks @iniltous . Definitely no ducts, but it is a Toby box out front on the pavement.

The most direct route would be from the Toby straight up the driveway, but not my preferred option. To the left of the driveway is the lawn and I would much rather have this trenched up to the house. That's possibly the easier option for Openreach too. However, I can't see how this can happen without cutting into the pavement as the Toby box location is at the bottom of the driveway, not the lawn. The lawn is about 2ft to the left of the Toby box. Hope that makes sense.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

iniltous — Thu, 19 May 2022 15:46:43 GMT

Its odd that they installed the Toby box at the property curtilage opposite the driveway rather than the lawn as obviously it’s cheaper and easier to excavate in soft surface, perhaps there were other services in the ground that stopped them doing that, but if you ordered , someone will turn up to trench from the Toby box to your house wall , they are unlikely to simply start work without seeking permission, so you could advise them where you would prefer the trench , and TBH , if they had a choice of all tarmac or 2ft in tarmac and the rest in soft , they would go for the easiest ( for them ) dig.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

United77 — Thu, 19 May 2022 17:26:01 GMT

Thanks @iniltous. That's good to know.

Do you know if they are normally willing to track fibre cable on the outside of the house or will they likely just enter where the dig ends?

The start of my lawn would bring me up to my living room, but I would prefer to bring the cable through front door where my existing hub is and have the ONT there as well. They could track it through the living room, but there would actually be more tracking and drilling that way.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

iniltous — Thu, 19 May 2022 17:53:32 GMT

I would imagine that its one set of engineers that dig the trench and leave a coil of external grade optical cable at the external wall , ready for the installer , who would terminate that cable in the CSP and then run another internal grade optical cable to the location of the ONT , it does seem ( especially if you get an Openreach employee rather than a contractor ) that within limits they try to locate the ONT where you want it ( one stipulation is that it needs to be near a power socket , as the ONT is powered ) and in many cases if the router is needed to be sited close by , ( connected by an Ethernet cable ) its likely a double power outlet is required….if you get a contractor, as they are paid per job , they may do what’s quickest, rather than spending too much time with what they could consider discretionary work.

Unfortunately, as far as can the external cable be ran some distance along the external wall before entering the CSP , I don’t know it that’s allowed or not.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

United77 — Thu, 19 May 2022 18:25:14 GMT

Thanks for all the info @iniltous . Very helpful.

Re: Full Fibre 1 Stage Install

grhowell — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 12:14:31 GMT

I am an ex BT engineer and have just been offered an upgrade to full fibre with no additional costs to my monthly bill.

As the "Toby" box is in the pavement outside my house I'm really very surprised that full fibre would be installed to my house (including the dig and burying of ducting) at no cost to me and indeed to all the other customers that will need to be connected in this way. That could cost hundreds of thousands! Virgin otherwise does a bodge job of running a link from the pavement in a green flexi tube, not very good practice in engineering terms and appearance. I'm very curious to know. My neighbor has just been connected, but pole fed which is a completely different can of beans.