This topic

Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:32:46 GMT

Currently have a Fibre Halo 1 package and get roughly 60 down / 15 up.

A while ago somebody came and found the tubing for our copper cable going into our house. Since then the neighbour (<5m away) has received full fibre along with the large majority of our 100 house community. They've got the new OpenReach box on the outside of their house and OpenReach modem (ONT) indoors.

I've contacted Openreach multiple times using their online form and sometimes it's a multi-week wait to get hold of a "specialist" response but it's always the same boilerplate message about "we don't have any plans to upgrade your area right now" when our area has been upgraded already and we and a handful of others were just missed out.

At this point it feels like we've been missed for whatever reason and now we won't ever get it because our area has been done so of course no plans exist to upgrade an already upgraded area.

What steps are left to try and get FTTP extended the extra 5 metres? Thanks for any help.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

iniltous — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:48:18 GMT

There are a couple of possibilities, one is that you are genuinely outside of the PON area , even if it’s only by a few metres and basically would have to wait until the PON area that your address falls into is ‘upgraded’ , there will be neighbours where one can get FTTP and the other cannot or there is a database error and your address is entered incorrectly or been omitted in error
Presumably your area is served by underground means , so unlike overhead service , where you can ‘see’ the overhead wire from a telegraph pole , and if your address were currently served from the same pole as someone who can get FTTP, but you cannot order it , then it would almost certainly be a database error , with underground service there aren’t these visual clues.
If you were ( for example ) No.4 in a street where your next door neighbours were No2 and Number 6 and they were able to order FTTP but you were not, again, probably a database error , but if you were on the other side of the road ( for example ) then it’s entirely possible your address just isn’t included yet.
Post your address return and your immediate neighbours ( on the same side of the street ) from this wholesale checker
https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
Post the entire page as there should as well as the basic ‘WBC FTTP available’ there should also be ‘survey’ info , something like ‘like UG feed, 2.5 inch duct’

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 23:39:34 GMT

My Broadband

Neighbour's Broadband

Here at both of the availability checker pages. We are indeed an underground serviced area.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

iniltous — Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:08:17 GMT

As can be seen the DSL return shows that the neighbours already have WBC FTTP and that the address in question has no FTTP availability….., what’s the orientation of the neighbour, next door ( same pair of semi detached) next door but detached, next door but on a tee junction etc ?, as already stated it’s not impossible for next door neighbours to be allocated to different FTTP networks , only one of which is now built and ready for service , usually there would be some sort of ‘natural’ boundary , so ( for example ) a terrace of 6 houses , looking from the road coukd be served from the right , ‘ next door ‘ is an identical neighbouring terrace of 6 property’s but they are served from the left , so although there are two end of terrace properties that are ‘next door’ to each other, the existing networks are different and don’t converge , so one block of 6 have FTTP , the neighbouring block of 6 doesn’t ( there has to be a boundary somewhere )

TBH, that’s why it’s required to check neighbouring property’s both sides , if either side of someone can get FTTP and the one in the middle cannot , that suggests a database error , otherwise it could simply be you are the wrong side of the FTTP boundary, even if it’s only by 5 metres.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

DarrenDev — Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:26:34 GMT

In the line immediately above the table it shows which exchange and cabinet number the property is served by. Are you both the same?

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Fri, 02 Sep 2022 11:44:47 GMT

Yes, we're both served by the same cabinet. The entire neighbourhood is as we're quite separate from other houses and ~75% of the 100 houses have FTTP.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Fri, 02 Sep 2022 12:02:04 GMT

Here is most of our neighbourhood mapped out. Green numbers have FTTP, Red numbers do not. (number 9 is blue because they have the FTTP equipment on their house but Broadband checker says no FTTP). Grey paint is added roads where Google Earth is missing them.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

iniltous — Fri, 02 Sep 2022 13:27:21 GMT

In areas serviced underground, but not ducted ( so an area currently served with DIG , direct in ground copper cables , generally these are property’s built in the 1960’s through to the late 1980’s ) , you can have a situation where some property’s have council maintained footpath in front of them , so OR have access rights to install new equipment in that footpath and can place an FTTP access point and associated joint boxes etc. opposite these houses ( still in the footpath ) ready for the householder to order FTTP, obviously this requires the installer to trench across the garden , but as the householder has asked for the service this is unlikely to be refused….but within these areas , especially in ‘cul-de-sacs’ , the developer, for an ‘improved’ street scene doesn’t incorporate footpaths outside every home , and on first glance the front gardens extend to the roadside (not a footpath) the property deeds likely will show the last metre of ‘garden’ isn’t actually the householders garden or even their property , its a service strip and effectively the same as a footpath , but over time theses areas are adopted by the householder , they maintain the grass, landscape it , provide ‘paving’ over it , etc, and it then becomes a grey area who then owns this strip of land.

It can become an issue should a utility provider need to excavate these areas in preparation for the FTTP network, the householder may tell them to go away , especially as the householder hasn’t actually asked for service , they would simply see this as someone digging up their garden for no reason.

If your area is like this, it’s possible that those with a footpath outside have been ‘upgraded’ , there would be evidence of this work being done ( new scars in the footpaths etc ) a householder cannot stop a utility company digging up the footpath outside their property, but those with no footpath may have to wait while the utility company ask permission and obtain wayleaves first from the individual householders , or the utility company may only do those property’s that have no access rights issues, and simply omit the ‘problem’ property’s.

TBH, it’s not that likely, chances are they wouldn’t start an area until all permissions were granted , as doing some work , then returning later to pick up those property waiting on wayleaves is not an efficient way to proceed.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Fri, 02 Sep 2022 17:45:20 GMT

Our are was built in 2000. There is a brick path road instead of pavement connecting the 3 houses in our (not quite) cul-de-sac which was my best guess at why they've ommited our houses. The brick paving does continue as drive-ways but the access brick paving doesn't belong to any individual and nobody. They've also connected other similar cul-de-sac houses with greater distance of brick pathing with FTTP and left houses directly on the main road without FTTP, so it all seems a bit random.

A couple of years ago somebody came to our house and found our tubing for our copper cable (picture), a little while after our neighbour and other households got FTTP while we didn't. So it at least seems like they intended to connect our house and never did.

The houses which have received FTTP now have the original copper cable and a new (presumably fibre optic) cable coming from their tube which feeds into the new Open Reach box on their homesTubing and copper cable - £ for scale. Rope was tied by person who came to find it.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

iniltous — Sat, 03 Sep 2022 08:41:12 GMT

The image shows the duct mouth , that’s good in so far that you have a ducted feed , so no excavation should be required in your garden or footpaths to get you to the ‘jointbox’ where a CBT could be sited that would serve you and probably some neighbours, so whatever the issues are , it’s not DIG cable related .

Why was the duct roped ?, if an area were surveyed for FTTP today , it’s noted that the property is ‘ducted’ and would probably be a single stage install ( once the network were built and taking orders ) , they don’t pre-rope ducts to houses in preparation for FTTP , it’s only when an order is raised and the installer on site that the duct is confirmed to be serviceable, but perhaps things were different a year or two ago and they did pre rope , your issue is that you cannot order so the existing rope doesn’t indicate your individual property was ever surveyed for FTTP, but doesn’t exclude it either.

The fundamental issue still is , was your small area with an area surveyed, but never built out with FTTP because of issues such as cost , wayleaves or problems obtaining permissions , or not surveyed because it wasn’t within the scope of the plans that saw your near neighbours get FTTP , obviously is not going to be built out if it was never surveyed, I suspect it were surveyed ( simply because of the close proximity of addresses that can order FTTP ) but excluded from the build out plan for reasons unknown.

I don’t know if it’s possible for you to reach out to OR again , using the ‘neighbours can get FTTP but I cannot’ angle , and hope to get a more comprehensive reply than the standard ‘not in our plans ‘ ….try contacting the CEO of OR , it may not change the fact that you cannot get FTTP but may help explain why you cannot get it.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

Gary_C — Sat, 03 Sep 2022 09:22:29 GMT

Do you and your neighbour share the same chamber ?

Would be interesting to lift the cover and see if you can find the other end of your blue rope.

Where all the houses built at the same time ?

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:41:19 GMT

These are the questions I would like the answer to, but getting any information beyond "there are no plans for FTTP in your area" is all the blood I can get from the stone that is OpenReach. I've made multiple attempts using the "My Neighbours have Fibre" option on their form and mentioned my duct being roped. Each time it was the same response, even after waiting a couple weeks for a "specialist" to reply. My last attempt was asking for why I couldn't get it, not even if I could.

It's news to me that being roped meant the FTTP Install Process should have been updated and a shame it hasn't been. My next best guess is we're on a different ground access than our neighbour was. Seems unlikely, but would explain why we're next to a small group also missing FTTP (added an updated photo in another reply below).

Guess my only hope is to reach out again and aim a little higher than support form.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:47:01 GMT

Not planning to lift the covers but I've updated my map with nearby covers and a photo showing proximity to cover/FTTP house.

All houses were built in 2000

LARGE BLUE DOTS = BT COVERS

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

iniltous — Mon, 05 Sep 2022 17:17:04 GMT

The image of the duct mouth at your house wall is missing some Openreach ‘covers’ that normally protect the cable until it enters through the house wall ( a BT connector bend 4a ,BT capping 25 and BT cover 101a ) they also provide a neat finished look , if these were always missing ( rather than removed when the duct was roped ) and the duct mouth was covered with garden material ( soil, grass etc ) the survey may have indicated not that the duct wasn’t verified,but didn’t exist , but then the survey for the neighbour states UG duct not verified, and they got service , so in itself shouldn’t omit your house from the build.

Often in locations such as this , there is a single duct leaving the joint box , ( rather than an individual duct to each property ) the duct effectively runs to a ‘duct tee’ where one ‘leg’ of the tee goes to the first house , and the second leg runs to another house , or another duct tee , if a duct tee were damaged and a new cable couldn’t be run through it, it likely would be located in someone else’s ‘land ‘ and excavation would be needed in that other persons land to repair/replace it requiring that person’s permission ( which wouldn’t necessarily be granted) , however the fact that your duct is roped suggests that the duct to your house is serviceable….

The access road is to your property and neighbours is block paved , it’s probably not adopted by the council ( they wouldn’t necessarily want to take responsibility for this type of surface, and OR wouldn’t have automatic rights to excavate in it , as they would with the conventional footpath the jointbox is located , perhaps this has some bearing on you not being able to order , the route to your home effectively running through private property.

It does really seem to me ( on the face of it ) you should be able to order FTTP and it’s only going to be a data error , or some ‘record’ that is missing or inaccurate that is stopping your address showing as being ready for service , but as you have found , it’s not easy to speak to anyone in OR ‘planning’ about it.

As already stated, I would try the executive level complaint route ( an email to the CEO can start this particular ball rolling ) , you likely would get a phone call from them , and they have the option to speak to OR planning to get a full explanation and pass that information onto you

You have already indicated that you won’t be peeking inside that jointbox ( looking for the other end of that blue rope and if a CBT exists ) if you could get an OR visit to do just this it would provide confirmation one way or the other.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

Gary_C — Mon, 05 Sep 2022 20:05:23 GMT

The covers are quite light 🙂

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:41:42 GMT

That CEO email is my next approach. Currently have managed to get OpenReachHelp on Twitter to open up a reference coded support ticket, was given the form link at first but explained I've done that twice and specific issue. Given what info I've gained here, so thank you.

We do actually have some covering (photos below), the cable runs from the duct to beneath our paving and then comes up in a cover (surrounded by my own mess of ethernet cables).

I'm really hoping the rope already being passed through our duct will mean they are able to pass cable through without excavation which I assume they wouldn't do. There are several of these brick pathways to multiple houses and they've received FTTP so hopeful it's not an issue.

I used to do surveying with a touch of utils and we were never allowed to lift the BT lids, so think it's drilled into me 😅 May have a peek tomorrow (especially if this Twitter attempt goes nowhere) and grab a photo to share here as I surely won't know what I'm looking for.

BT Housing (grey) - beige housing and cables my ownBT/OpenReach cable going from ducting with blue rope to beneath patioAll visible cable run

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

HarrySa — Tue, 06 Sep 2022 10:45:24 GMT

No luck through OpenReach on Twitter but, either get the clipboard out and petition the neighbourhood and pray, or hope for some other line of contact to work.

"Thanks Harry, sorry to see this has happened there, I can see on our network maps there is full fibre in the area but it does miss quite a few property's up and down the road, I don't have any details for any reasons this would have been done in this way, I also can't see any proposed fibre showing on the maps at this time. Our fibre enquiry team would be able to look deeper into this, but it might be worth registering interest on this page - opnr.ch/CFP - if your neighbours also do this it might help push things along. Sorry i don't have better news for you."

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

justtesting — Mon, 26 Feb 2024 10:13:48 GMT

I know this is an old post but i'm in the exact same spot and just wondering if you managed to get this resolved?

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

Jenson675 — Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:03:40 GMT

Hello despite sending photos of the ducting that BT run their phone lines in, I was told that I didn’t have the required ducting in my street and that they needed to put poles up to connect us, and that would cost the street in the region of 20k !!! Despite having their fibre to cabinet delivered through their cables through ducting.

Despite Openreach engineers confirming physically that we had ducting we were told no we didn’t because it wasn’t showing on their records !!! All it needed was a pull through of the new cable..

so the solution!! Well a company called Youfibre came along and installed 1gb fibre cables through the Openreach ducting that we didn’t have and provide a great service. Openreach total pants. Even now we can’t get Ultrafast from BT and other companies like Sky, EE that use their cables because it can’t be connected as we don’t have ducting……which we very clearly do !! The fastest speed I can get from them 42mb Youfibre 1gb !!

Openreach is so poor.

Re: Neighbour 5 metres away has Full Fibre, we don't.

justtesting — Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:27:45 GMT

Thanks for replying! Ah thats pants

Sounds like a nightmare dealing with these large companies who follow what the computer says rather than using their initiative and looking at the actual information

I've just spoken to BT who are installing cables in my road, by the sounds of it hoping the whole estate will be done so hoping i dont have a database error or another issue like yourself