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Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

sevans67 — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 14:59:00 GMT

Hi All,

BT should be taken to task on this and reported to the regulator. My first installation was 10 years ago and it was 78mbps download. The Openreach engineer said it should never drop below this as the FTTC fibre cabinet could take as much bandwidth as required to service all the houses in the vicinity and since the copper line was direct 1:1 from the FTTC cab to my house no one else could have an affect on it.

Since first installation it has dropped twice - first to 69Mbps and currently 59Mbps, prices have not dropped to match an it is poor service.

When I ring to ask why they just say that they are meeting their contact which has been amend twice to suit after you renew a contract.

They will never have my custom again when next renewal is due.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

iniltous — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 15:41:09 GMT

The speed someone will get from FTTC ( and ADSL for that matter ) is primarily a result of the line distance to the cabinet with FTTC or the exchange with ADSL , and obviously the speed profile purchased.

If someone speed isn’t as good as it once were , given that the distance from the exchange or cabinet is constant, then the reason is likely to be the ‘line’ has issues, not that the ISP or Openreach are interfering, there is absolutely no benefit in OR or the ISP doing this, so why would they ?

Once a line has real world performance data , then that can be used in future estimates, so ( for example ) someone signs up , the line can achieve 50Mb , due to the limits of the line length , the customer has purchased Fibre 1 ( upto 55Mb ) , the original estimate, before any real data was available stated 40-50Mb , so actual performance better than estimates .

The line develops an ‘issue’ that impacts the line performance, this could be something the customer is responsible for ( like they put cheap Christmas Tree lights up , and they interfere with the router ) or the ‘line’ is affected by a high resistance fault and electrically is not as ‘good’ as it once was ) but the consumer doesn’t report this to the ISP, DLM ( digital line management ) intervention reduces the sync speed to get better stability and the line is now ‘only’ providing 40Mb.

Many will ( incorrectly ) think that the ISP has ‘deliberately’ reduced what they are getting , they haven’t , the ‘estimates’ at renewal may be less than the original 40-50Mb , again that not the ISP being underhand, the line is ( currently) delivering 40Mb , so using that real data available , the estimate is based on that.

These things can relatively easily checked , the router statistics ( that the OP doesn’t want to post ) will indicate if the line is underperforming or not , and a DSL check from

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

will give the range of speed to be expected for the location .

The most likely reason for line performance reduction is a fault on the line.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

sevans67 — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 16:02:09 GMT

Thank you iniltous

Maybe you want like to ring BT on my behalf and argue my case. I have not changed my packaged since day one. I've asked for an engineer on several occasions to come and check the line which they refuse as they and my broadband meet the "legal contact" I have agreed to. So BT see there is nothing wrong with the line.

What BT do not point out until you ring and complain "I DONT HAVE 78mpbs" is "THEY- BT" have changed the contract so the min speed you should attain is X. Check the small print in your contract.. Over the years BT have been reducing it slowly.

So even though my package is Fibre 2+ which states 78MB download speed and as the Openreach engineer stated - you should never go below this speed unless there is a genuine issue - I will never get this now...

However I state again in the small print of the contract it now states min download speed 59mbps - even though the package headline states 78mbps.

I am getting ~ 60Mbps which is 25% less than when I first started with no discount in price e.g. the price has actually gone up by a considerable % based on what is being provided to where I started.

I agree it partly has nothing to do with throttling but answer me this - why does BT change the small print in the contract to less than something they are selling a 78mbps package.

I repeat my initial message - BT should be brought to task with the regulator. If I buy a car I want 4 wheels not 3..

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

licquorice — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 16:53:13 GMT

@sevans67 wrote:

I agree it partly has nothing to do with throttling but answer me this - why does BT change the small print in the contract to less than something they are selling a 78mbps package.

It has got nothing at all to do with throttling, not partly.

Speed can reduce over time as the effect of crosstalk in a cable can severely reduce speed. Crosstalk is an extremely complex subject and is not possible to mitigate. In a nutshell the signal from one pair of wires in a cable interferes with another pair. The more customers in a cable the more likely a crosstalk disturber will reduce the speed of a connection. Moving customers to a different cable pair is not a feasible solution as it just becomes a game of whack a mole.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

sevans67 — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 16:58:37 GMT

Hi All,

Here are my figures for my line, hopefully you can make some sense of it and I call BT with your recomendations.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

pippincp — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 17:26:59 GMT

Your estimated range is 56-74mbps, as you are within that range there's not a lot BT can do.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

iniltous — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:31:06 GMT

On the20th Sept your observed download was about 64Mb, roughly in the middle of your predicted range , so from that perspective there isn’t anything obviously wrong , post your router stats , they may indicate something , but 64Mb download could equate to something like 68-70Mb sync rate.
TBH , you won’t notice any real world difference between a sync rate of 78Mb and 70Mb, and as stated there is a possibility that ‘crosstalk’ the result of more users of FTTC on your ‘cabinet’ have impacted your line , this is ‘physics’ , not much can be done about that.
If you are struggling to have a fault accepted by your ISP , that’s because there may well not be one, if there is a slight issue ( and it cannot really be more than a relatively minor issue , even if one exists ) it’s always open to you to insist on a visit , but that opens you up to the possibility of being charged for an unnecessary visit , if the engineer finds nothing wrong with the line.
If you were given a guaranteed 78Mb ( and if that the case you should have the documentary proof than can be referenced with any conversation with your ISP ) , it’s much more likely the 78 was the top of a range of speeds , and your MSG is much less.
When you took your contract the minimum speed is quoted , when you renew ( if you did ) then the minimum speed isn’t necessarily the same as the initial one guaranteed , you need to find that document to see what’s been guaranteed, TBH , it’s not likely to be 78Mb.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

sevans67 — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 20:32:05 GMT

Hi Inilous

That's the point I am trying to make and you are missing it - BT should be brought to task with the regulator.

The original contract started out 10 years ago min speed 75mbps. After 2 years you get a reminder that your contract is coming to an end. You renew, in the 80 page contract detail is a line stating the the min speed is reduced. WHO in this day an age reads a contract of 80 pages for a broad band renew with a text size so small you have to have a magnifying glass to read. There should be an amendments section so you can just read the highlights/changes.

Two years passes again. Do you want to renew email? Yes thinking nothing has changed to my original Fibre 2+ I agree, but again in the small print the min MBPS has been lowered again!!

Until finally 6 - 8 years later it's moved 25% lower than where you originally started. So you ring BT and say there must be an issue, then they refer to page 19, clause 4.2, subsection 25, point 5....NO LOOK AT page 19, clause 4.2, subsection 25, point 5

I raised this in the forum so people who think they are getting throttled will probably find out like me the min speeds are being reduced.

Why are BT reducing the min speeds in their contracts, that what we should be asking?

We can agree to disagree all day, I just think the the underhanded way they do things.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

licquorice — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 20:52:43 GMT

Nobody is deliberately reducing anything, its called the laws of physics. The fact that broadband works at all over the ~~wet string~~ copper network is a miracle in itself let alone the speeds achieved.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

sevans67 — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 21:15:10 GMT

You must work for BT? You cannot accept that the speed must be being reduced no matter what evidence I give you. You need to take facts and not the mumbo jumbo of physics and surprised it works over copper at all etc. Well it does and that's all we need to agree about and you need to take on board.

I am 28 metres from the cabinet (FTTC) point to point, when the engineer first installed the distance was 54 metres tested as the copper cable has to leave the cab, up the pole and into house. Now 58 metres of copper is not any significant distance agreed? But as you say there could be join faults, water ingress etc. from the cab to my main socket. I accept that. This also could be the case for full fibre, poor joints etc. etc. This is not the argument.

When initially installed I was getting 78MBPS and it worked fine for years, I am not even suggesting I need more because there are other factors that need to be taken into account such as latency etc..

Now I only get 60MBPS, I cannot get an engineer to come out to check if there are joint faults or water ingress as the contract has been changed to reduce the min acceptable speed really without my knowledge unless I reviewed an 80 page document with type face the size of a pinhead. WHY HAS THIS BEEN DONE WHEN THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT, all I am saying is BT are a underhand untrustworthy company and the people who think their broadband is being reduced could well be experiencing the same as me.

You keep repeating yourself "why would the ISP reduce the speed they have no need to and nothing to gain", my argument is exactly the same why have they reduced min speed in the contract?

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

imjolly — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 22:13:00 GMT

If you are only 58m cable distance from your street cabinet I would expect 80/20mb connection unless there is something terribly wrong with your line as there is no speed throttling. Can you post your hub/router connection stats to give more details about your current connection speed

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

iniltous — Wed, 21 Dec 2022 00:03:20 GMT

If your line is genuinely performing much worse than it once did , whatever the reason for that is , it’s not a deliberate policy or action taken by OR or your ISP , what possible rationale could they have for doing so ?, there is no reason why an ISP would deliberately limit the sync speed of a line, however DLM ( dynamic line management ) can and does limit ‘speed’ for the sake of stability, if a defect is making the line unstable.

The DSL checker doesn’t indicate that your line is cable of speeds much higher that you currently get , if you used your phone number in the checker , try again but using the address option , post the results, the distance you are from the cabinet ( if your estimate is correct ) suggests something wrong , for comparison, I easily get 80/20 , and my cabinet is something like 80-100m away.

As requested a few times , why the reluctance to posting your router stats , that should give an indication of what your lines potential is , as well as what you are actually syncing at.

Getting an ISP to accept a fault or even arrange a visit even if they don’t consider there is any performance issue shouldn’t be as problematic as you apparently are experiencing, but there may well be a point at which you have to accept that if you report an issue , but non is found , then charges for the visit are possible, refusing this possibility will result in no visit being arranged, if you do hit a problem getting an OR visit , AFAIK, there is a broadband speed improvement visit that is chargeable if no issue is detected , or the issue is within your home ( like running a router from an poorly wired extension socket ) but is free if a network defect is found ( and rectified ), you could request one of these.

What’s your goal ? , to leave BT penalty free ?, it wouldn’t matter what ISP you used , the fundamentals would be the same regardless, the FTTC equipment and the line are Openreach supplied and obviously would be the same irrespective of the ISP , there could be a minor difference as far as the router the ISP supply’s but generally the speed would be pretty much the same if a different ISP were providing your service and not BT , if the line has a defect, that would still be present.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

APerson — Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:00:45 GMT

The point is that the infrastructure is not being proactively maintained, contractualy reducing MGS yoy is not managing maintaining the systems just slidinding the service down and covering their bottoms. I do not believe this is a problem unique to BT, but they dont want to open things up to enable industry wide problem identification.

Big letter advertising 'average rates' and very small letter only what we'll guarantee, fair, open , honest? OfCommmm , let lone the seller ISPs advertising the MGS in the same size lettering as the generic wonderfull superspeed + 'service'.

Identify something that is not unique to you, but maore than just you then complain to OfCom and get your refference - you amy also wnt to complain to OfCom that they are not being proctive and publising the losses as opposed to just only teh 'gain's of digital britain and the Billions taxpayers are being charged for the 'improvements', Not the the BT employed Mod's will assist with non parochial ISP industry 'practices'.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

imjolly — Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:28:46 GMT

@APerson

This thread is a year old. Any reason for resurrecting such an old post

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

APerson — Sat, 06 Jan 2024 17:30:59 GMT

Yes, is there a trend of decreasing fttc speeds (and MGS) to users, as there is no news on this and nothing from OfCom, and decreasing ISP service levels that 'we' ought to know about - or is it something that many would like kept quiet / lost under a blanket of shhh don't raise such a consumer point. Increasing costs are one thing but decreasing speeds/service as well!?

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

gg30340 — Sat, 06 Jan 2024 17:38:17 GMT

@APerson

You have already stated all this on your own thread

Solved: Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time - BT Community

so please stop spamming the boards with the same message.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

APerson — Sat, 06 Jan 2024 22:16:04 GMT

Just looking for answers rather than shutdowns. Others' views on if there is a trend, that may be being 'ignored'. Would be godd to know if there is a trand being as nowhere seems to track the service levels of speeds or MGS's, even by reagions, areas, postcodes etc. Why not, rather than a downward spiral of information and or open ness.
It would be very good to know if / or where such information is available even if needs a FOI, dont you think?
Any help will be appreciated.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

licquorice — Sat, 06 Jan 2024 22:18:52 GMT

Your conspiracy theories are total nonsense. See message4 of the thread for an answer.

Repeat, nobody is deliberately throttling anything.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

gg30340 — Sat, 06 Jan 2024 23:41:39 GMT

If you can't even get your information about who is covered by FOI Act correct I doubt you will have any chance of getting others onboard about your conspiracy theory.

I'm sure there must be a website out there that will welcome your assertions about the big evil companies but this forum is not the place.

Re: Broadband speed is now throttled to 20mbs compared 38mbps to when it was first installed.

NeilO — Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:41:46 GMT

@APerson this thread is over a year old now, the OP has been provided with advice and possible explanations as to why their speeds may have decreased and it has been stated there is no policy to deliberately slow connections down over time. BT customers are provided with the best speed their line can carry within the parameters of the profile rate of the package they pay for.

As you have previously mentioned you are a Talk Talk customer, this community forum is intended for the discussion of issues related to BT products and services. If you have an issue with your service you need to raise this with your own provider. I have locked the thread as the discussion has went off topic.

Thanks

Neil