This topic

FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

WiffyD — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:10:58 GMT

I'm posting on behalf of an elderly neighbour who is desperate to get connected to FTTP, which has been available on our rural lane for 5+ years (I have a 900Mbps service).

He lives on a farm 82 metres from the road and has an underground (ducted we believe) service for his existing twisted-pair cable (that limps along at 3-4Mbps on FTTC). Because of this BT/OR have him marked on their systems as being unavailable for FTTP.

How do we get OR to survey to investigate installing a new telegraph pole for an overhead service, which he's happy to pay for, so he can finally get FTTP?

I've tried contacting BT and explaining to them that an FTTP access point (CBT) is literally on the border of his land, but it seems like the perfect example of "computer says no" and no one is willing to look any further in to it.

Many thanks for any help!

Re: FTTP on my street by existing line is underground

licquorice — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:09:21 GMT

Not sure why you think he needs a pole if a duct already exists.

Re: FTTP on my street by existing line is underground

WiffyD — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:12:05 GMT

Is FTTP available via ducting? If so, then why are BT refusing to provide a service? (I've never been able to extract a reason from them, so assume the underground service is the only reason).

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

garybs29 — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:22:33 GMT

It's OR who decide availability BT have no control over it. Sounds like an availability form needs to be sent off to OR though base don what you're saying

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

WiffyD — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:30:52 GMT

Thanks for the info. Do you have a link on how we can do this?

Google didn't yield anything obvious.

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

iniltous — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:03:11 GMT

https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-availability---customer-form

Get you neighbour to use this form if they think FTTP is available but isn’t showing on checker sites,

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

36ULW — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:00:49 GMT

You’d need to find out if your friends house NAD Key is associated with that CBT on the Boundary of their property.

If it is but they can’t order FTTP it could be a Database Error.

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

Devon_Dave — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:45:11 GMT

@WiffyD Are you sure the line is ducted? It may well be a direct in ground cable.

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

WiffyD — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:06:21 GMT

Thanks @Devon_Dave - I'll ask him if we can investigate that.
Are you thinking that OR have records saying it's a buried cable and that's preventing the FTTP order?

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

imjolly — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:26:17 GMT

as your friend lives on a farm is this a residential connection or possibly a business connection?

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

WiffyD — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:58:25 GMT

@imjolly - purely residential - it’s a converted farmhouse and he’s retired. 🙂

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

iniltous — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:07:18 GMT

What does this checker site give as the survey return for the address in question ?
https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

Use the address search function, you are looking for something similar to this ( this is the result for a fully ducted house )

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

Post the results, there is a reasonable chance the address records if they don’t match the Royal Mail postal file exactly, then ISPs won’t be able to ‘match’ the address with Openreach records or that particular address may have been outside the PON , just because near neighbours can get FTTP doesn’t necessarily mean that this address is part of the PON .

Posting the results from the checker will help clarify if the address has availability or not.

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

WiffyD — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 14:28:59 GMT

Many thanks @iniltous

Not sure what you mean by "just because near neighbours can get FTTP doesn’t necessarily mean that this address is part of the PON ." The entire lane has access to FTTP, except this one house, however all other dwellings are served by overhead cable. (P.S. I know PON = Passive Optical Network).

Please see below for address search output, there doesn't appear to be any similar to text to that which you shared.

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

imjolly — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 14:37:01 GMT

probably because the dslchecker does not show FTTP is available

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

iniltous — Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:29:44 GMT

So the address ( according to the checker ) doesn’t have FTTP available, so no ISP will be able to raise an order , the link posted previously can be used to ask Openreach to check if there is an addressing error, it’s advisable to check that the address used on the DSL checker is the same as the Royal Mail entry.

When an area is surveyed for FTTP , ( assuming for now this address is included in the same PON as the near neighbours that can order FTTP ) just because it is potentially ‘difficult’ address to serve, doesn’t necessarily exclude it , provision /capacity is still made to include it , but any order for FTTP can come with ECC ( excess construction costs ) , if the time and expense to provide service is deemed excessive.

It does seem a fairly typical situation, a farmhouse down a relatively long private driveway, a ‘BT’ pole at the entrance, and ( probably) at some point in the past , an armoured copper cable ran from the pole at the entrance, alongside the driveway to the farmhouse, the farmer probably excavating the trench themselves, and BT/OR providing the cable to put into it , the farmer doing the reinstatement.

If FTTP is available, a CBT is provided at the pole at the entrance, the survey note indicates a KCI2 and no duct or overhead option , KCI2 is a 2 stage install , on the initial service delivery visit ( 1st stage ) ECC ‘s if applicable , are discussed , and any mitigation the customer could provide ( like digging a trench themselves is taken into account when providing the costings ( or alternatively, the customer asked to accept a new feeder pole or poles so overhead could be used ) again depending on what’s required ECC may still be appropriate.
In your case because the address doesn’t show availability, it’s all moot , until the address is confirmed as outside the current PON , or it is included , but a data error is stopping the order process, hence the need to ask OR to check.

Re: FTTP is on my street - but my existing line is underground

WiffyD — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:28:53 GMT

Many thanks for all the helpful replies. Especially to @iniltous who provided a link to the OR customer form.

It's still not entirely clear, as we had conflicting information from BT/OR, but they confirmed there was an address error in their database. It was fixed within 48 hours and now my neighbour can now order his FTTP service!

Once again, many thanks and very much appreciated! :-))