This topic

Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

BeckiJane — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 22:03:50 GMT

I'm paying for Fibre 2 and used to get 36/16kbps when I was with Vodafone on this line so I know it can go higher than it currently does.

For the last couple of months I was checking it was regularly clocked around 39.075/9.997Mbps and I've just done another check now (with 10+ days reported uptime) and have these statistics.

Connection Speed	36457 kbps	9997 kbps
Line Attenuation	D0( 14.9) D1( 24.1) D2( 31.6) dB	U0( 20.8) U1( 19.1) U2( 26.5) U3(N/A) U4(N/A) dB
Noise Margin	D0( 7.3) D1( 7.4) D2( 7.4) dB	U0( 9.6) U1( 9.5) U2( 9.5) U3(N/A) U4(N/A) dB

The broadband availability checker for my address claims it should be able to deliver between 67-80/19-20

Fibre 2 claims averages of 67/19 as well, and I can only assume that for ease of switch-over, someone decided to keep the settings from the previous provider instead of running a new test and in fact shaved some upload speed off for good measure.

Fair play to the algorithm in control of the operational side of the business that decided to give me an average speed estimate of 31-34Mbps/8-9Mbps and a guaranteed minumum download speed of 28Mbps, which you have at least succeeded in delivering.

It's just a shame that as it presumably couldn't be bothered to see if it could actually deliver the maximum Fibre 2 speeds (and has indeed not succeeding in doing so), it also couldn't be bothered to instead offer me the BT Fibre Essential package which matches the speeds I'm currently receiving and wouldn't be mistaken by an overly officious ombudsman as some sort of attempt to get around the legislation by charging customers more for packages it knows it cannot (or won't bother to) deliver on the grounds that when the final quote and guarantee of lesser speed was issued, the customer was foolish enough to not actually start complaining immediately (before the contract back-out time expired) - hey, not everone has perfect mental health and a full team of legal advisors on standby for every eventuality.

Long story short, is my line being falsely banded into a lower profile and can you fix it?

The email address I used for this is the same as the one I registered the broadband on if that helps speed your investigation.

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 22:43:00 GMT

Can you confirm what speed you used to get with Vodafone please?

Either you have mistyped or something else is awry.

I suspect you are on a 40/10 profile (or Fibre 1), but that is aligned with the predicted speeds you also posted.

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

BeckiJane — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 23:08:32 GMT

My previous speed would have been at least 32/16 but even so my BT account is meant to be Fibre 2 and that's what I'm being charged for.

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

Crimliar — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 00:14:34 GMT

Is there anywhere in the xDSL reports on the router that shows the VDSL2 profile that's in use? I believe Openreach use profile 17a for 80/20 and 8a for 40/10.

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

imjolly — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:26:07 GMT

can you post your hub stats advanced settings then technical log information

can you also post results from https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

if you have no phone number or digital voice then use your address

you are not in a banded profile but maybe the wrong profile

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

licquorice — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:23:23 GMT

You seem to misunderstand how DSL works. If your line length is only capable of 36M it makes no difference if you are on Fibre Essentials, Fibre1 or Fibre2.

If your car is only capable of 50mph, a speed limit of 70mph won't make it go any faster than a speed limit of 60mph.

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

BeckiJane — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:30:37 GMT

Here's the address-based speed thing I've just found the debug page of the Netgear D6400. I won't pretend to understand it all and there is more but hopefully this contains the pertinent information. I'm loathe to replug the smarthub in case something at the other end decides to consider it a dodgy line and downgrade me to ISDN or something 😄

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:    0
Max:    Upstream rate = 16340 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51121 Kbps
Bearer:    0, Upstream rate = 9997 Kbps, Downstream rate = 36457 Kbps
Bearer:    1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:    L0
Mode:            VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:        Profile 17a
TPS-TC:            PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:        U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:        No Defect
Training Status:    Showtime
        Down        Up
SNR (dB):    7.4        10.0
Attn(dB):    19.7        0.0
Pwr(dBm):    12.9        5.4

            VDSL2 framing
            Bearer 0
MSGc:        -6        43
B:        227        31
M:        1        1
T:        0        64
R:        14        2
S:        0.0000        0.1017
L:        9733        2675
D :        4        1
I:        242        34
N:        242        34
Q:        4        0
V:        0        0
RxQueue:        85        0
TxQueue:        17        0
G.INP Framing:        18        0
G.INP lookback:        17        0
RRC bits:        0        24

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

RobbieMac — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:34:25 GMT

Hi @BeckiJane

Welcome to the BT Community and thank you for your post!

I am sorry for the problems with your broadband speed. Can you post your Hub stats and a screenshot of the results from the >> BT Broadband availability checker << please? Ultimately, you should have been put on a package to reflect the broadband speed available at your address.

**Edit** Our posts crossed. Thanks for providing the info. It's a profile mismatch. You should be on a 80/20 profile on Fibre 2 but it looks like you're currently on a 40/10 profile. I have sent you a private message with instructions on how you can send us over your details and we'll look into this for you. See: Private messages

Thanks,

Robbie

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

imjolly — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:35:40 GMT

@RobbieMac

looks like set on fibre 1 profile and should be fibre 2

@BeckiJane

can you check MYBT and make sure it shows fibre 2 not 1 in package

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

RobbieMac — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:36:52 GMT

@imjolly wrote:

@RobbieMac

looks like set on fibre 1 profile and should be fibre 2

Thanks @imjolly Our posts crossed so I edited mine 😀

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

BeckiJane — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:37:35 GMT

If the line is actually only capable of 36M, then it would seem a little OFCOM-notifiable for the company to still take payment for a package that doesn't offer the advertised speed, when a cheaper one that does only offer that rate exists.

To continue your analogy, I don't have parking for a Lambourghini (FTTP) so paid for a Granada (Fibre 2) yet received a Fiesta (Fibre 1/Essential speed) with a swapped out name plate 🙂

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

imjolly — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 07:52:33 GMT

Have you tried connecting to the test socket with a filter to see if that improves your speed as even the attainable speed from your stats is well below the expected range from dslchecker

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

BeckiJane — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 08:12:52 GMT

@imjollywrote:
Have you tried connecting to the test socket with a filter to see if that improves your speed as even the attainable speed from your stats is well below the expected range from dslchecker

I'll wait for RobbieMac and the Community team to verify the actual profile that's been applied before going down the master socket test route.

Out of interest, would a physical noise check even be possible on a line that no longer has a proper telephone connection (Vodafone decided to switch the account to some VOIP thing without even telling me and I didn't request a new connection with BT when I switched the broadband over, which was handy(!) as I had been using an older phone that doesn't even beep-boop when pressing buttons - using automated hotlines required holding a simless mobile up to the mouthpiece 😄 )

At least I found the quote button this time 🙂

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

RobbieMac — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 08:15:54 GMT

I'll wait for RobbieMac and the Community team to verify the actual profile that's been applied before going down the master socket test route.

Thanks @BeckiJane

I see we've got your details so many thanks for sending them over. We deal with cases in turn as we receive them so as soon as you reach the top we'll be in touch to give you a hand 🙂

Robbie

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

BeckiJane — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 07:31:05 GMT

@BeckiJanewrote:
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:    0
Max:    Upstream rate = 16340 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51121 Kbps
Bearer:    0, Upstream rate = 9997 Kbps, Downstream rate = 36457 Kbps
Bearer:    1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:    L0
Mode:            VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:        Profile 17a
TPS-TC:            PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:        U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:        No Defect
Training Status:    Showtime
        Down        Up
SNR (dB):    7.4        10.0
Attn(dB):    19.7        0.0
Pwr(dBm):    12.9        5.4

            VDSL2 framing
            Bearer 0
MSGc:        -6        43
B:        227        31
M:        1        1
T:        0        64
R:        14        2
S:        0.0000        0.1017
L:        9733        2675
D :        4        1
I:        242        34
N:        242        34
Q:        4        0
V:        0        0
RxQueue:        85        0
TxQueue:        17        0
G.INP Framing:        18        0
G.INP lookback:        17        0
RRC bits:        0        24

We're still mid-ticket so future numbers could change while the line settles but I thought I'd provide an update for those following along at home.

The profile appears to have been updated overnight, although it did make the modem disconnect for an unknown period of time (it was still unconnected once I got out of bed).

I've rebooted the router, which is currently in the master socket and here are the changed statistics to date.

Last Retrain Reason:    0
Max:    Upstream rate = 16882 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49877 Kbps
Bearer:    0, Upstream rate = 16882 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49687 Kbps
        Down        Up
SNR (dB):    3.3        5.9
Pwr(dBm):    12.9        5.6

            VDSL2 framing
            Bearer 0
MSGc:        -6        24
B:        227        239
R:        14        14
S:        0.0000        0.4523
L:        13265        4493
I:        242        127
N:        242        254
RxQueue:        120        0
TxQueue:        20        0
G.INP lookback:        20        0

I still don't know what all of those numbers mean but the stream rates have increased quite handily.

The upload is now reaching the speed I had expected and the download is in the range apparently expected by the router (I'll assume that's something it calculates based on current signal to noise ratios and it could improve further, if I'm lucky).

Hopefully I'm now on the 80/20 profile.

One can only presume that the computer handling new account sign-ups is basing line capacity on the speed test carried out across the previous provider's connection, ie. my Vodafone package (not necessarily the fastest they had available) used to reach 32+/16 so the BT algorithm thought 40/20 was my max and as they didn't have that profile, rounded me down to the next nearest configuration. Even a router fault could end up reducing the speeds offered if that is how it's chosen. 🙁

It's been over an hour since connection so here's a current quick look at the stats:

ADSL Link	Downstream	Upstream
Connection Speed	49687 kbps	16882 kbps
Line Attenuation	D0( 14.9) D1( 24.3) D2( 31.8) dB	U0( 20.8) U1( 19.3) U2( 26.7) U3(N/A) U4(N/A) dB
Noise Margin	D0( 3.2) D1( 3.3) D2( 3.3) dB	U0( 5.8) U1( 5.8) U2( 5.8) U3(N/A) U4(N/A) dB

I'm not going to discuss the extra automated line management stuff that can occur once a line is activated (especially as that may be OperReach's department, rather than BT's) but it may be worth someone double-checking that profile selection algorithm because I wasn't tne first one here with this problem (and it's because this very issue had been discussed and fixed for people after they posted to this forum that I registered). Maybe we need an additional sub-heading specifically for "Broadband Speed Profile Query" on the topics drop-down 😄

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

imjolly — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 08:05:47 GMT

from new stats you are now on fibre 2 as can be seen with your up speed no longer restricted to 10mb. your down speed looks at attainable so as good as line can get with normal 6db noise margin. You may get a boost in down speed if G.INP is able to be active but that could take 7/10 days stable connection

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

Crimliar — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 08:54:01 GMT

From the get-go, your the VDSL2 profile you posted was 17a, which suggests you were already on Fibre 2 (or it should have been 8a).

The SNRm values you've posted are pretty low - low is good provided they can be maintained. If they creep up, then it's possible that there is some source of interference, even if it's sporadic.

Good luck, I hope the stats stay as they, or maybe even get better - remember to update us in a week or if everything goes well!

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

licquorice — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 09:01:11 GMT

BT don't use 8A, all BT VDSL is 17A

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

Crimliar — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 09:13:28 GMT

It didn't used to be! Doing my research though, you are correct and the DSLAMs now only support 17a. Brings into question how the exact speeds are generated. It's got to be procedurally somehow or everyone close to a cabinet on Fibre 1 would be getting top speeds!

Re: Am I another Banded profile victim? (Artificially low speed profile)

licquorice — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 09:17:42 GMT

Not sure how exactly the 40/55/80 caps are technically implemented via DLM, but it isn't via VDSL profile change. That wouldn't give precise speed caps in any case.