This topic

Binned BT

bmcl26 — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 23:11:23 GMT

I have just binned BT, having been a customer continuously since 1968. On 25th January, I received an email from BT advising me that Full Fibre to the premises was now available in my area. On 27th January, I checked the Broadband Checker website, which clearly stated that up to 1000mbs was available at my address, and I submitted an order for 500mbs. I was offered installation appointments as near as two days away but elected to choose 15th February for installation. Shortly before this date, the Appointment was cancelled with no reason given, and a New Appointment was offered for 10th March. This was also cancelled again without explanation, and a New appointment was for 11th March. The same thing happened again for this, and a later appointment for May suffered the same outcome. Then, on 17th May, I received a letter from BT stating that if I wished to continue with my order, I would be required to pay £5,527.29p in Excess Connection Charged. Needless to say, I cancelled. I then waited until my contract with BT expired and Ordered 1000mbs FTTP from Vodafone, which was installed within around four weeks. I find it incredulous that BT wanted a ridiculous amount of money for a connection while Vodafone installed it free of charge when both Used Openreach for the connection.

Re: Binned BT

pippincp — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 07:45:25 GMT

I would agree 100% with you if Vodaphone only used Openreach for their FTTP service however they don't.

It would not have been BT who kept putting your order back or charging for any excess fees for FTTP access but Openreach themselves.

As you have now left BT it is pointless discussing further.

Re: Binned BT

iniltous — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 12:28:08 GMT

As stated Vodafone use several different networks to supply their retail customers , BT only use Openreach , so if you now have Vodafone FTTP , who is the underlying network provider , if it’s Openreach , then something is obviously wrong, excess construction charges have nothing to do with BT , they just pass the charges that Openreach say are required, so why would BT be told ECC are appropriate from Openreach and VF were not ,unless VF have absorbed these costs themselves ( extremely unlikely ) .

If VF have connected you to a different underlying network , City Fibre for example, they obviously use their own processes , and may have constructed their network upto you curtilage, where the OR network is still some distance away , so basically , what name is on the ONT , Openreach or someone else ?.

If CF build a network right up-to your curtilage, they know that this infrastructure can only be used by themselves, if Openreach did the same, build before an order is received , infrastructure right upto your boundary , because of PIA ( passive infrastructure access ) other providers ( including CF ) can use that new Openreach infrastructure, they could even use it before Openreach use it themselves, so the case for expenditure in this type of thing is not the case for each network .

Re: Binned BT

bmcl26 — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 12:26:03 GMT

It is Openreach who connected my FTTP on behalf of Vodafone. Hence my question why would BT want over £5,500 and Vodafone had it fitted free?

Openreach Noikia ONT fitted.

Re: Binned BT

iniltous — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 12:31:25 GMT

In which case something has gone wrong , or VF have footed the bill, the later is highly unlikely, so presumably OR have screwed up the BT ‘order’ , and not made the same mistake with the VF order , or they have footed the bill for the VF order in error ….TBH , although you are rightly ‘disappointed’ , it’s actually BT that should be felling aggrieved , as apparently they are giving VF preferential treatment.

Re: Binned BT

bmcl26 — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 12:46:12 GMT

Thank you for taking the time to make your comment, much appreciated

Exactly my point, I am in the process of raising a complaint with Ofcom regarding this wholly unacceptable customer service from BT.

Re: Binned BT

iniltous — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 13:16:19 GMT

I don’t think you have really appreciated my point ,

BT were told by Openreach that to provide your service, BT would have to go back to you , and ask you ( BT’s customer ) to make a large contribution towards installation , you decline , and re-order with VF , who using exactly the same ordering processes , have their order accepted without excess charges being asked for by Openreach , so excluding the highly unlikely scenario that VF are picking up the excess construction costs, why have Openreach offered a different choice to VF than to BT ?, this apparently is an Openreach error , one that penalises BT and favours VF.

Years ago , the likes of Sky , Talk Talk , Vodafone , complained that OR would always favour BT , that’s why they insisted that Ofcom make BT divest Openreach into a stand alone outfit , it appears that ( in your case ) rather than favouring BT , Openreach are actually penalising BT , after all BT have lost you as a customer.

If your complaint is , BT could have challenged the charges ( if they were wrong ) that could be a fair point …..was there any extra work in providing your FTTP , like extra poles ( if overhead ) or excavation and ducting that was provided after your order was accepted by VF ?.

If your FTTP service is pretty much the same as the copper pair service, so if overhead copper the FTTP overhead cable from the same pole as the copper dropwire , or if underground, the optical cable is through the same existing duct as the copper cable was in , or if Openreach had ( as was the process up until recently ) recently provided a toby box to your boundary ( done before you ordered service ) , and all that remained was a soft dig across your lawn to the house wall once you ordered FTTP , then these do not attract excess construction charges, if OR built new infrastructure only once you ordered , then depending on the work needed , it can be chargable.

If you now have FTTP your address survey won’t be of any help , but if you have a neighbour that doesn’t yet have OR FTTP but would have the same order journey as you , perhaps you can post details for them from this checker ( use the address search , not phone number )

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

The survey note looks like this ( for a fully ducted property )

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

For addresses potentially at risk of excess construction charges, I would expect something like ‘ partial DIG ‘ indicating that extra work will be needed

Re: Binned BT

bmcl26 — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 13:23:30 GMT

The connection required 54m of ducting as our copper supply was armoured cable directly in the ground.

I was aware of this matter before ordering it, as that is what was stated in the Broadband Checker.

A nearby neighbour whose premises are identical to mine and the exact same distance from CBT was connected to Vodafone in March after only 4 weeks from order, while I kept getting the run around from BT.

Re: Binned BT

pippincp — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 13:59:18 GMT

I can only echo what Kieth has already said. BT would not raise a seperate charge. Openreach will have told them that is what it would be which is unusual for 54mts of conduit.

There was obviously a breakdown of communication which should not have happened.

Re: Binned BT

iniltous — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 15:21:35 GMT

I suppose the unknown factor is , did Openreach quote VF the same ECC’s as they did to BT , and Vodafone paid it in order to get your custom , that would be remarkable but OR wouldn’t care who ultimately paid, it’s impossible for a consumer to pay OR directly anyway , the payment would always be via the ISP, because it’s the ISP that is Openreach’s customer , or somehow OR messed up and have footed the bill themselves with the Vodafone order , but ( correctly ) expected BT ( and ultimately you ) to pay the excess ( after OR deduct their contribution ) , and as would normally be the case , the charge is passed onto the customer.

Breaking out of an existing joint box, and laying 54m of duct , making an arbitrary division of 44m in footway and 10m in soft unmade ( like grass ) would be expensive at around £4k , (using an average civils charge ) , absorbing this cost to provide a single connection is the economics of the madhouse, given OR ‘return’ is probably less than £20/ month , assuming you keep your connection active, that’s 40 years to simply pay that off ( although clever accounting may be able to write some of this off ) but as you have got FTTP , presumably someone ( OR or VF ) are making expensive mistakes.

Re: Binned BT

-Richie- — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 16:42:55 GMT

@bmcl26wrote:
why would BT want over £5,500 and Vodafone had it fitted free?

When any provider raises an order it goes to the supplier (Openreach), as you never had FTTP before then Openreach will flag it needs a survey done first, when they surveyed your order, it was deicded ECC (excess construction charges) applied and BT raised that with you, BT don't just add costs because they want the order to go through to start charging for the service, you then decided not to go ahead and the order cancelled.

You then picked another provider, again a survey was done, this time no ECC was raised, a few options are possible:

The original survey by Openreach was wrong or right (we'll never know)
The 2nd survey by Openreach was wrong or right (we'll never know)
Vodafone accepted the order and swallowed the ECC, possible as each ISP wants to be #1 for FTTP

You'll never fine out the answer, BT added the ECC because Openreach flagged it, no other reason.