This topic

Demarcation box

Crashandlearn — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 18:13:22 GMT

I will be brief as I keep loosing the text.

The fibre runs from the street toby box and normally lands on the side of the house. A pig tail is then taken through the wall and to the A/D converter.

My question. Is there any reason why the demarcation box cannot be located inside the house. The fibre would then run from the street to its final destination. My study is a long way from the most convenient wall so this makes sense. Like having the BT master socket in the house.

Thank you,

Cashandlearn.

Re: Demarcation box

caravanj — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:03:21 GMT

@Crashandlearn

I'm trying to get a mental picture of what you're asking as 'The fibre would then run from the street to its final destination' as the fibre's final destination is the ONT not the demarcation box or CSP as it's more commonly known.

Apart from the fact that no provider that I'm aware of will install an internal CSP, I don't understand what the benefit would be as the incoming fibre cable would still end at the CSP / demarcation box & an outgoing fibre cable would then go to your ONT.

Just as it does with the external CSP / demarcation box.

The reason for the external CSP, as with the old basic telephone lines, is that a street-side damaged cable fault can be rectified without an engineer having to enter your property.

Re: Demarcation box

imjolly — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:01:12 GMT

@caravanj

I have an internal CSP so you can have one fitted probably depending on openreach fitter and ofcourse you have to ask

Re: Demarcation box

caravanj — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:09:57 GMT

@imjolly

I live & learn.

But you still have a cable from your CSP to your ONT, that was the bit I didn't understand as it doesn't really save anything.

It's still an incoming cable to the CSP & an outgoing cable to the ONT no matter where they're located.

Re: Demarcation box

pippincp — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:10:17 GMT

Why don't you just ask the instal engineer if he will run a fibre cable from the CSP (Customer Splice Point you refer to as demacation box) externally via an outside wall to your study. Most will agree unless there is a compelling reason not to do so and then alternative options may be suggested.

Re: Demarcation box

imjolly — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:21:20 GMT

@caravanj wrote:

@imjolly

I live & learn.

But you still have a cable from your CSP to your ONT, that was the bit I didn't understand as it doesn't really save anything.

It's still an incoming cable to the CSP & an outgoing cable to the ONT no matter where they're located.

Yes but my incoming fibre cable comes into my loft conversion under the eves and fitted a very small CSP and my ONT situated right next to the CSP

ONT + internal CSP

Re: Demarcation box

caravanj — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:36:36 GMT

@imjolly

Thanks for the explanation.

I suppose it could be safer if the incoming cable was totally ducted & capped with an internal CSP as it would be more difficult for anyone to deliberately tamper with it.

Re: Demarcation box

iniltous — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:34:48 GMT

A separate optical cable is required from the CSP ( internal or external ) to the ONT , because the cable from the CSP to the ONT , is designed to be ran internally and is pre-made ( in various lengths ) with a SC/APC plug on the end , that plugs into the ONT , the external cable from the CBT to the CSP is an external grade cable and not suitable for running internally, ( a couple of metres is OK if an internal CSP ) so although you may not think it necessary to have two cables spliced together, it is .

Re: Demarcation box

caravanj — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:44:00 GMT

@iniltous

That's what I couldn't understand about @Crashandlearn's original post when they mentioned about the external cable coming into the house with the ONT as the final destination.

Re: Demarcation box

Crashandlearn — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 20:55:55 GMT

So many replies and so quickly.

Thank you all.

To give a little more background. I have a shared drive with a neighbour and the distance from the pavement box to my house is 70 meters. The contractor wants to excavate the drive and my neighbour and myself are unhappy with this. We have installed a flexible conduit which lies in the hedge line and goes the 70 meters to the house, 2 meters up the wall and 15 meters to my office. It is 20mm polypropylene and is intended to give some physical protection. Since the run is continuous it just seemed sensible to run the brown sleeving all the way to my office, connect the CSP there and then on to the ONT. Clean run and no external break in the conduit. If I am obliged to mount the CSP outside then I will have to install a box and presumably a couple of glands for the fibre to loop out into the box for its onward journey.

I want to be able to tell the installer - use my conduit and put the CSP in my study. Preceded by please.

I don't want him to say - according the the code of practice, Section B, subsection 11.a (or whatever) we must do it this way.

If there is no rule then I feel more confident about arguing the toss.

I am new to this and still remember 78s so thanks again for the help and the patience,

Crashandlearn,

Re: Demarcation box

36ULW — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 21:18:29 GMT

What’s in the conduit right now?

Re: Demarcation box

iniltous — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:04:28 GMT

Your initial question was a little misleading, rather than asking if a continuous cable from the CBT to the ONT can be used ( it can’t ) , all you are really asking is if the CSP can be some distance from where the external cable would ‘hit’ the property wall , and close to where the ONT is required, that’s not an unusual request, and if practical, would be considered by the installer , you would still have a CSP and a second ( internal) optical cable to the ONT from the CSP , but that second cable much shorter given that the CSP is now closer to the ONT location , the installer won’t particularly care it’s the same amount of cabling work.

The potential problem I would foresee with you supplying your own 70m plus of conduit and expecting it to be used, is if you have not provided a draw rope inside this conduit, could a cable be pulled through it without a draw rope ?, also , should your neighbour sharing the driveway you don’t want disturbed, could they benefit from this conduit should they also order FTTP , are your properties connected ( semi detached) or separate detached houses , would another conduit be necessary for them ?

TBH , it’s not really possible to know what the first stage install techs will make of this ( presumably you are a KCI2 install process according to this checker site ) , they may go along with this , or they may refuse and if you don’t agree to the normal installation process they were expecting to provide ,they simply walk away … 70m of excavation, especially if it’s driveway and not soft surface ( like grass ) , I’m surprised there is no contribution required, as that’s probably a £3k expense on its own , what does your address show on this checker

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressFeatureProduct

Re: Demarcation box

Crashandlearn — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 21:51:16 GMT

Nothing. Empty. Installed just for fibre. Sorry, should have made it clear.

Crashandlearn.

Re: Demarcation box

36ULW — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 21:57:22 GMT

Right OK.

What kind of Conduit is it, is it Duct 56?

Openreach will be reluctant to use yours as sooner or later they’ll ultimately end up taking responsibility for it (you and your neighbour won’t live there forever) and if in the future say the conduit collapses and they need to replace the Fibre Cable then they would have to source that particular type as opposed to using their standard Duct, which would be Duct56.

If you went to the trouble of digging this Conduit in, you probably should’ve checked what Openreach would use.

Re: Demarcation box

400 — Fri, 20 Oct 2023 07:28:13 GMT

Not sure this is any use but I used a decorative trunking kit that you fix above skirting boards to get my fibre in. It has a D cross section and comes in various sizes, it has corner kits and blends in reasonabley well.

Although I only have to go around 1 room. Fibre appears at the housel duct appearance and they drilled through the wall, into the decorative ducting rather than follow the old copper wall box. Min radius bends were all good.

Re: Demarcation box

36ULW — Fri, 20 Oct 2023 08:18:45 GMT

I doubt the Installer would be bothered about using customers trunking internally like yours.

The issue here clearly is the OP wanting Openreach to use None Industry Standard Ducting on the External Network.

Openreach won’t usually do that because as I said I’m my previous comment they would sooner or later have to adopt it and be responsible for it.

Re: Demarcation box

Crashandlearn — Sun, 22 Oct 2023 13:28:10 GMT

Thanks to all who replied. All replies were helpful and at least I can use the correct

Caravanj – I should have been clearer.

Imjolly – Thanks for the info, shows in can be done.

Pippincp – The external run around the house would be too long. Easier to go up the wall and through the loft which will have the conduit running in it so no contractor access required.

Initous – Nicely summarised. There is a draw string. My neighbour would not benefit since his house is already next to the road and has been run with the fibre cable clipped to the house wall. My house is effectively in his back garden. No contribution for excavation has been mentioned but will not take place anyway. Thanks for the link, followed up and nothing explicit.

36ULW – The conduit is 20 mm flexible polypropylene laid at surface level under the boundary hedges. It is intended as a mechanical protection for the brown external cable. If the conduit got damaged (unlikely) it could simply be ripped up and replaced.

Thanks