This topic

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

APerson — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:12:09 GMT

Have noticed this note based on teh title and noticed in the origional post how the guarteed minimums rate (gmr) were substantially decreasing at each renewal, and along with decreasing performace for the line.
Now I'm not with BT but TTBusiness (whose lines are still BT/OpenReach), and over 5 years have notice my performace dwindling over time, inititally on fttc in 2018 was getting 33-34M, which has gradually been decreasing to thsi week 16.49, and on my last renwal 2022 the gmr was 17M, I had a look araound and this 17M was replicated by other providers.
Given my current rather poor rate I had another look aroung and see that most other providers gmrs are in teh 12-13M rate, along with TTB !!!
How are they allowed to get away with reducing teh rate and increasing prices, thiss p1ss poor regulation, maybe its about time we only had to pay the same % of the package as they 'deliver' on performance against their glossy advertised average rates? It seems that digital britain is macheavellian in small print hiding the truth of digital delivery - incresing costs, decreasing delivery and the governemeny / their regulaters are dumb/blind or dont give a damn about the decline of 'service' particularly in non city locations who arguably need / rely on connectivity somewht more? Another UK sham and manipulation by corporates, and or just disgracefull?

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

iniltous — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:27:19 GMT

BT is not Openreach and Openreach isn’t BT , you are not a customer of either….as a Talk Talk customer you need to speak to them , they may use Openreach as one of their suppliers, but that’s of no interest here there is no reason why anyone on this BT Consumer forum would have any opinion on their relationship

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

Keith_Beddoe — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:34:04 GMT

@APerson

This is the BT Retail Customer forum.

You need to post on the Talk Talk user forum.

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/custom/page/page-id/ForumIndex

Thanks

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

APerson — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:40:24 GMT

I am / was not looking for BT 'help' but noticing a general trend in providers (who in the main depend on OpenReach (which IS a subsiduary of 'BT'), BT reducing the gmr, by every renwal as per OP, and I've just seen the same in onthers - so it would appear that isp's including BT, seems to be a a 'very quiet' common practice that is going on for ISP 'customers'?

Note TalkTalk Business is not TalkTalk (retail) admittedly 'TalkTalk do not make make the distinction clear or obvious - and the link you provided is the 'retail' brand of TT, which does not cover TTB, and is as parocial as you would have this 'it's not BT go elsewhere', as opposed to embrasing the fact that it apears ISPs be that BT, TTB or other seem to be doing.

Are BT reducing the gmr for fttc services - not just a BT practice but a larger consumer problem coming from ISPs?

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

iniltous — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:45:22 GMT

Openreach may be a BT Group business but are operationally separate, there is absolutely no point discussing your issues with Talk Talk on a BT Consumer forum , even if ( in your opinion ) the issue affects BT customers in the same way, after all you wouldn’t go into B&Q to complain about a product bought in Screwfix would you ?

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

APerson — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 15:54:08 GMT

Thanks, but do we agree there maybe / is a common issue in that ISPs, BT included (and where best to ask but on a BT forum) is there a trend of decreasing gmrs, including by BT, do BT customers see or recognise such a trend?
And if there isnt one from BT it become my new ISP home, 'if'!

I dont mind paying for a good service but I do mind a creeping hoodwinking, decresasing 'service' with out a decreasing cost, let alone a decreasing service for incresing cost a double slight on paying customers, don't you?

If there is a common trend from ISP them maybe OCFOM do do with nudge to procrastinate before looking after suppliers rather than customers, BT included?

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

licquorice — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 15:58:46 GMT

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

ISPs DO NOT reduce your speed deliberately despite what you might think. Why would they, what is the benefit to them?

Speed is governed by the laws of physics. Crosstalk from users can make an enormous difference to broadband speed.

Copper telephone cables were never designed for the sort of frequencies that broadband uses.

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

pippincp — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 21:23:13 GMT

@licquorice Guaranteed speeds are also dependant on line quality and reported speeds seen, if there is a fault on the line this will be reflected in the speed guarantee.

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

APerson — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 00:17:02 GMT

However as the OP pointed out at each of his (BT) renwals the gmr decreased each time.
I noticed the same with myself albeit a different provider, last year mine was 17M (in the contract 🙂 , this year it would be only 12M!! And from running round other providers in general most are this year in the 12-13M band, and for increased costs, (someone is taking the micky). When I started I was getting ~ 33-34M, I've charted the decling over the years, yet no one cares and there's nothing of regulators on this trend of decresing service and increasings costs, something has a smell of not exactly being open and honest about 'digitising britain' (unless that means sticking a couple of fingers to some consumers) and holistic 'improvement', or in some cases failure to even maintain that of 5 years ago?
I can see little reason for decresing delivery other than inadequate backbone provisiong or deliberate manipulation of whats provided, particulalrly as I live on a smallish estate which has not grown in the 20 or so years its been here, so what's failing? Openreach or how and ISP can manipulate data rate, or governance of what was provided and a fair cost for a fair (maintained) service?

Can't wait for FTTP, although it wont be before 2026 apparently, by then my FTTC should be down to about 6M, yeah grate britain.

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

iniltous — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 08:20:11 GMT

If the minimum speed guarantee ( MSG ) has reduced at each renewal, you obviously have a choice , renew at the new MSG , leave the service for an alternative, or continue on an out of contract basis with the original MSG which offers eventually the option to leave penalty free , although if out of contract that’s available anyway , no one holds a gun to your head , if you have no viable alternative because no other network provider has tuned up in your area , that’s hardly Openreach’s fault.

The MSG on ‘lines’ that provide genuine data from being in service, is based on the actual performance as opposed to a mathematical guesstimate used when providing a prediction of speed for an address without a working service , so an unresolved fault that lowers speed will result in the MSG being lower because the speed observed is lower , fix the fault , actual speed improves, so does the MSG , but ( as pointed out ) there are some issues reducing speed that are not faults , for example , the more customers connected to a FTTC ‘cabinet’ , the higher the chance your ‘line’ is affected by crosstalk ( interference from the FTTC service on an adjacent pair ) unfortunately the resulting ‘noise’ can result in the sync speed being lowered for stability.

FTTC is rate adaptive , if it’s the only option, you live with its limitations until a better alternative becomes available, there is no vendetta, no cunning plan , no Machiavellian scheme, to deliberately reduce speeds , the capacity to the cabinet ( and its utilisation) have no bearing on individual line sync speeds , to believe so is ridiculous, and ( as pointed out ) has nothing to do with BT , a company you don’t even use .

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

APerson — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:36:46 GMT

HI iniltous,

Thansk for the feedback, so the explanation of last year MGS 17M, This year only 12M and not just with currnt 'provider' is just that the infrastucture isn't good enough / despite digital britain / is failing to maintan the mediocre rate due a local demand, noting were a bit of a small estate of ~ 100 houses in teh middle on knowhere. I'm 'lucky' at the moment as my contract runs for another 12m with a MGS of 17M, however if for my e.g. my neighbour contracted now they'd only get a MGS of 12M ( as they would with most other providers for this paost code of ~ 30 houses. So why the contractual difference, if I can have a MGS of 17M (previously 21), why should next door only get 12M, whan last year it would have been 17, seems like the infrastructure / digital britain is being over sold, with no mentions things are actually getting worse! No doubt given this trend next years renewal / switch will only be for <10M.! There is no option as all here is on OpenReach Infra, so much for 'Levelling Up' , so not only getting less, but also having to pay more for a diminishing service no matter what ISP (of course all generally off OpenR)

Its sort of tollerable to know it's not just current ISP, but a failure of (local) UK infrastructure and annoying given all the govenrment / ISP marketing at how good they are when in fact some existing services are gettign worse by a factor of ~2, 21 to 17 to 12 (can't remember what the MGS was 5 years ago, but given my log of actual going back 5 years probably ~24.

I dont see publicity mentioning this, or even humility from teh ISP industry, even if it want to 'blame' OR for the inadequte local backbone.

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

licquorice — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:15:34 GMT

Give it a rest, nobody is interested in your rantings.

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

iniltous — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:36:40 GMT

The MSG isn’t some limit imposed on a line , it’s a point at which you can be excused any early termination charges should you wish to leave because the MSG hasn’t been observed, if you were a BT customer you may be asked to provide your router statistics to gauge if your line is underperforming, but you aren’t a BT customer so you are not likely to be asked that , although you are at liberty to take it up with your own ISP .

For all you know , the reason your MSG is lower than it was previously , is due to a line fault ( or your own internal set up or equipment) that can be rectified or improved, that’s why I gave two explanations of falling line rates , you seem to have only considered one (crosstalk) but as you are not BT Customer then it’s hardly BT’s concern, any non ISP specific issues you may feel you have about whatever digital Britain is , or levelling up , lack of alternative network etc .etc . need to be addressed to the appropriate body’s responsible for them .

Re: BT Broadband speeds reducing over time

PaddyB — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:43:35 GMT

Hi Guys,

I'm going to lock this thread. @APerson if you need any further assistance, please contact your service provider.

Thanks,

Paddy