This topic

Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Sat, 25 May 2024 19:36:43 GMT

OpenReach will be installing my full fibre broadband this week. I've realised that I've got an old cable duct running from a place that would be good for placing the ONT modem, and it goes to a wall box outside the house. Does anyone know if OpenReach would be able to pull the fibre through this duct or is the installation process strictly a drill-a-hole-in-the-wall job.

Thanks for any insight.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

Crimliar — Sat, 25 May 2024 20:30:05 GMT

Provided it's suitable and not more work for them, they'll use it if you ask.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Sat, 25 May 2024 20:40:06 GMT

OK. Thanks. I didn’t know if the fibre ‘cable’ could be pulled as well as poked through things. At the moment there is an old (now unused) coax cable in the duct. Is it best to leave it there or would it be more helpful if I used the old cable to pull in a length of thin rope or thick string?

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

pippincp — Sat, 25 May 2024 22:10:24 GMT

Openreach cannot use another providers duct even if it is no longer in use.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Sun, 26 May 2024 06:13:27 GMT

Does this rule about other providers’ ducts apply even if the duct belongs to the house? I would have thought that if I own the duct and ask them to use it there shouldn’t be a problem. In fact I think the coax was originally installed by BT or their predecessor.

But if those are the rules they’re following…

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

Crimliar — Sun, 26 May 2024 09:07:28 GMT

About 50% of my neighbours have their fibre fed into the house using ducts that were put in place when the houses were built (one duct that has been used by Openreach, Sky, and VM) - ie they came with the house. The other 50% of us have fallen foul of builders not understanding that such ducting needs a certain corner radius and not have insulating foam leaking into it at the joins.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Sun, 26 May 2024 09:27:30 GMT

I'm guessing that it will probably come down to how helpful the engineer is prepared to be on the day. I don't know what the corner radius is but the coaxial cable seems to move fairly freely so I'd think it was OK.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

pippincp — Sun, 26 May 2024 10:28:05 GMT

If the duct was supplied by the builders of the house then it isn't another provider as in Communication company.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Sun, 26 May 2024 10:58:38 GMT

@pippincp Yes, I don't see why putting the cable through my duct is any different than putting it through my wall. Anyway, I'll try and make things as easy as possible for the engineer and hope they will go along with that.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

ptrduffy — Sun, 26 May 2024 15:48:06 GMT

I would suggest using the coax to pull through a draw string - that way the installer doesn't need to worry about whether the coax is in use or not.

My experience was the installer was more than happy to use a pre-installed conduit and draw string as it made his job easier (and I got to have the ONT where I wanted it).

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Sun, 26 May 2024 16:24:48 GMT

@ptrduffy Thanks. Yes, I bought a reel of thin cord today and I'm going to try pulling it in behind the coax. The difficulty or otherwise of getting the coax out should give me some idea of the practicality of using the duct. For instance, I should get some feel for how tight the corners are!

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

Anonymous — Mon, 27 May 2024 09:07:56 GMT

@SteveWest

Are you by any chance in Milton Keynes, or another town/city that used to have BT Cable TV?

I am in MK, and was hoping to use the tube from the wallbox in the front wall of our house to the lounge TV position when Openreach get around to fibreing our area.

I don't think that you will have to worry about tight corners, coax should not be bent anyway and the cable used in our house has a solid dielectric which makes it stiffer than air-spaced.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Mon, 27 May 2024 09:33:31 GMT

@Anonymous Hi Paul. No, not Milton Keynes but yes this area had cable TV put in by BT. The developers put the ducting into the house, probably in co-operation with British Telecom, as it was named then. So it seems like we're in a similar position. I think my coax has also got a solid dielectric so I'm not terribly worried about the bends in the duct, but I should have a better idea when I pull the cable out later today--unless it pours with rain. The external wall box has to be opened with a square key and is a bit awkward to get open, especially as previous people seem to have opened it by wedging a flat headed screwdriver into the square hole--at least, that's what it looks like.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

Anonymous — Mon, 27 May 2024 10:31:38 GMT

@SteveWest

Why not leave the coax in place for now, the Openreach installer may want to use it to pull the fibre or tube through?

"The external wall box has to be opened with a square key and is a bit awkward to get open, especially as previous people seem to have opened it by wedging a flat headed screwdriver into the square hole--at least, that's what it looks like."

Ours has more of a crescent shaped keyway, which also requires a special key to open it properly. I think that BT also used it on their CCTV cabinets? Few Openreach people seem to have the correct key these days, but luckily I managed to acquire one!

@pippincp

"Openreach cannot use another providers duct even if it is no longer in use."

"If the duct was supplied by the builders of the house then it isn't another provider as in Communication company."

But if the duct originally contained a cable, (in this case the coax), fitted by BT/Openreach, then how would they justify not reusing it for another of their cables?

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Mon, 27 May 2024 14:14:11 GMT

@Anonymous Too late! I didn't read your message until after the cable was out. The coax--which must be getting on for 50 years old--pulled out very easily so there can't be any sharp corners in the duct. I pulled in a length of cord behind it so the OpenReach engineer has got something in there for pulling in another cable. In fact I pulled in a pair of cords because I've also got a cunning plan that I might be able to use the duct as part of a convoluted route to get a Cat6 cable to one of the upstairs rooms.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

Anonymous — Mon, 27 May 2024 15:57:45 GMT

@SteveWest

"I might be able to use the duct as part of a convoluted route to get a Cat6 cable to one of the upstairs rooms"

Is your house similar to mine then, with another duct from the front wallbox carrying a second coax to a TV socket in the master bedroom?

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Mon, 27 May 2024 16:27:38 GMT

@Anonymous No, unfortunately not. The house was built in the 70s when the concept of master bedrooms had not really caught on, and the idea that someone might want a TV in the bedroom was probably considered totally decadent. But I might be able to get from the BT box via the wall cavity to a void which would take my ethernet cable upstairs and then to the spare bedroom which needs the wired ethernet.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

pippincp — Mon, 27 May 2024 21:06:37 GMT

"But if the duct originally contained a cable, (in this case the coax), fitted by BT/Openreach"

You really want me to answer that dumb question?

What if the duct originally contained a coax from YM/O2, Cable & Wireless or NTL or TeleWest or even Granada or Redifusion.

I don't recall Openreach ever supplying a coax cable for any service but am willing to be shown wrong.

What if a cable company supplied the builder with the duct and they'd agreed on exclusive supply for a year or more?

The OP will find out if the duct can be used when the install engineer attends. No ifs, buts or maybe's if the engineer says no then that's it. If he says yes, then happy days!

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Mon, 27 May 2024 21:37:55 GMT

@pippincp The original local cable TV system was definitely installed by BT (or, rather, its predecessors) in the 1970s. There are still a few of the old green street pillars around with GPO embossed on them, which were part of the cable TV distribution network. The coaxial cable to my house comes from a nearby BT footway box, through a duct that also contains the phone cable. Both arrive in a box on the outside wall of the house. The duct inside the house could only have been installed by the builder and it leads from that wall box to the place where they thought the TV ought to be.

As you say it all depends on the engineer who turns up on the day. He may take the view that the duct is of unknown provenance and therefore not to be touched, or (again as you say) May go for the “happy days” option.

Thanks all for the advice and interest in my problems. I’ll let you know what happens.

Re: Fibre through existing domestic cable duct?

SteveWest — Thu, 30 May 2024 14:14:51 GMT

I thought I'd just report on the final outcome.

The engineer came today and was a bit reluctant to use the internal duct--because we really don't know much about the state of it or the sharpness of the bends. However, the nearest footway box with fibre access turned out to be at the end of the road and, by the time he had brought a fibre to the house, there was only a very small length left for the splice. So at that point he changed his mind and decided to try the duct. The final result is that the external fibre comes to the house entirely through the old PSTN/TV ducting; the splice is in the wall box on the front of the house; and the internal fibre goes through the internal ducting. So there is nothing visible externally and a few centimetres of fibre internally.

My main motivation for getting full fibre was that fibre-to-the-cabinet was only giving an upload speed of about 2.5Mbit/s. The upload speed as of this afternoon is about 28Mbit/s (download 148Mbit/s).

The installation engineer was very helpful and left everything very tidy. A great result