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BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

RedSquirrel — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:41:31 GMT

Hello,

Quick question regarding the speeds available when checking on the BT Wholesale Checker website.

When using our landline number and the house address the results are very different. I posted on here a while back querying why our house gets terrible speeds compared to the neighbours house.

It was determine that our line was an exchange only line meaning rubbish speeds. However when using the landline number to check it is in fact served by a cabinet where as using the address there is no cabinet.

Attached screenshots - Is there a reason for this or could this be why we are having issues?

Landline

Landline

Address

Address

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

naylor2006 — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:53:35 GMT

AFAIK the telephone number result is the one that is more accurate but both are showing the same FTTP ondemand, which I think is where they use an existing FTTC setup but replace the copper between you and the cab with fibre.

Do you and your neighbour have the same 'product'?

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

RedSquirrel — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:12:35 GMT

The neighbouring property is away to have broadband installed with an estimated speed of approx 50mb.

Is there a possibility that the phone line and broadband side of things are not matching with our property somewhere?

Maybe a silly question but have to ask…our connection is sitting at around 11mb at the moment, is the speed we actually get determined by the physical line (whatever it may be) OR is this set by a system somewhere that may be confused by our address etc? Meaning we may actually be able to physically get a faster speed but ‘the computer says no’ 🙂

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

licquorice — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:17:51 GMT

@naylor2006 wrote:

AFAIK the telephone number result is the one that is more accurate but both are showing the same FTTP ondemand, which I think is where they use an existing FTTC setup but replace the copper between you and the cab with fibre.

FTTPoD is an extremely expensive product aimed at businesses. It is a bespoke full fibre solution back to a head end.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

naylor2006 — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:18:18 GMT

Errr @iniltous help......

I'm not the biggest expert on copper to be honest but there are different profiles but alot depends on what the physical connects are capable of, IE the faster it tries to go the more likely the internet will drop out so a lower profile is more desirable.

I think in you can view the things like SNR in the BT Hub, it will show attenuation also, one of the experts more in that field will probably be able to give you some insights then.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

licquorice — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:23:06 GMT

@naylor2006 wrote:

Errr @iniltous help......

I'm not the biggest expert on copper to be honest but there are different profiles but alot depends on what the physical connects are capable of, IE the faster it tries to go the more likely the internet will drop out so a lower profile is more desirable.

I think in you can view the things like SNR in the BT Hub, it will show attenuation also, one of the experts more in that field will probably be able to give you some insights then.

That is a total red herring. The difference here is whether the OP has ADSL or VDSL.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

licquorice — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:25:46 GMT

@RedSquirrel wrote:

The neighbouring property is away to have broadband installed with an estimated speed of approx 50mb.

Is there a possibility that the phone line and broadband side of things are not matching with our property somewhere?

Maybe a silly question but have to ask…our connection is sitting at around 11mb at the moment, is the speed we actually get determined by the physical line (whatever it may be) OR is this set by a system somewhere that may be confused by our address etc? Meaning we may actually be able to physically get a faster speed but ‘the computer says no’ 🙂

Your speed is determined by your physical line and the service available to you. If you are connected to a cabinet, FTTC will be available but if directly connected to the exchange only slower ADSL will be available.

It does seem odd there is a discrepancy between phone number and address, particularly as @naylor2006 says, number is normally the accurate figure.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

licquorice — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:27:26 GMT

Try calling customer services 0330 1234 150 and request an ORDI check (Openreach Data Integrity)

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

naylor2006 — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:30:11 GMT

@licquorice a little more fact checking on my part.....at least one part was right....

Why is the FTTPoD listed with 330 down, seems like this service would be capable of 1Gbps up and down at least.

@licquorice said:
That is a total red herring. The difference here is whether the OP has ADSL or VDSL.

Do copper lines train these days and stabilize?

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

licquorice — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:37:23 GMT

@naylor2006 wrote:

@licquorice a little more fact checking on my part.....at least one part was right....

Why is the FTTPoD listed with 330 down, seems like this service would be capable of 1Gbps up and down at least.

Its an old product which I guess is limited by the technology employed to deliver it.

@licquorice said:

That is a total red herring. The difference here is whether the OP has ADSL or VDSL.

Do copper lines train these days and stabilize?

Yes, but that isn't the question at hand here.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

iniltous — Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:21:36 GMT

There will be a small number of locations where a property potentially can be served from more than one DP ( distribution point ) and it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that one DP is served from a cabinet and therefore potentially has FTTC available, and the other DP is E/O ( exchange only ) , which is cabled directly from the exchange and FTTC isn’t available, basically any ‘connection’ from an E/O DP isn’t via a cabinet so no chance of FTTC

….if the OP has broadband they could check the modulation type at their router , if it’s G993.* it’s VDSL/FTTC , if it’s G992.* it’s ADSL/ADSL2 .

The fact that the phone number and postal address in the checker give different returns is either a data error , or more likely the higher speed is because the actual phone number has a routing that is associated with the cabinet and the postcode entry is aligned to the slower E/O DP ( that assuming the address has access to both types of DP ) , so the comment that the phone number is more accurate than the address is correct

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

RedSquirrel — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:13:09 GMT

Thanks. What exactly will I be asking or looking for when asking for an ORDI check? Do they provide what data they hold on you and you then check if this is correct?

In my case if there is potentially an issue what would I be looking for here?

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

RedSquirrel — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:19:50 GMT

@iniltous Thanks for your input.

Would I be able to check this modulation type on a BT Home Hub?

Although wouldn't the type be 'G992.*' given the speeds we receive? (ADSL)

I am convinced there is an error somewhere! Absolutely no address in the local vicinity is estimated speeds as low as we do. It is a country location so its quite easy to check every house within half a mile...Our house is up there with the oldest of them all but certainly not any older than some who are estimated to receive at the minimum 20-30mb with an option to upgrade to 74mb.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

pippincp — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:21:06 GMT

@naylor2006 When in the entire history of the entire world has Openreach ever "where they use an existing FTTC setup but replace the copper between you and the cab with fibre."?

FTTPoD is a bespoke product and can cost thousands mainly for busnisses. FTTP is never supplied via a cabinet.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

licquorice — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:23:17 GMT

The check needs to verify that the data held matches reality, only Openreach can verify that. They need to verify the routing of your circuit as to whether you are indeed connected directly to the exchange or via a cabinet.

You need to explain the discrepancy between phone number data and address data and get them to confirm which is accurate and why the discrepancy.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

RedSquirrel — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:38:32 GMT

To further add to my investigation I found our UPRN for our house and did a check with this, the results are different again..

OUR HOUSE

NEIGHBOUR

To summarise our UPRN (CABINET 0), Address (EXCHANGE) and landline (CABINET 3) ALL give different speed results.

Our neighbour gets the exact same speed results for UPRN, Address and landline (CABINET 1 for ALL)

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

naylor2006 — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:42:06 GMT

@pippincp said:
@naylor2006 When in the entire history of the entire world has Openreach ever "where they use an existing FTTC setup but replace the copper between you and the cab with fibre."?
FTTPoD is a bespoke product and can cost thousands mainly for busnisses. FTTP isneversupplied via a cabinet.

What I did mate was look something up for my own understanding, I looked up FTTP On Demand in order to gain knowledge and perhaps share some, unfortunately I didnt look much further into it than the first hit:

Okay so I got it wrong but I think we can be a little more friendly with our corrections, after all this is a community and i'd already been corrected by someone else, I am learning some things along the way.

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

iniltous — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 08:01:06 GMT

OP , you need to check your router connection statistics, if the router is connected as VDSL you are already on FTTC and unless a line fault exists you are as fast as your line will go , if you are ADSL then you may have a FTTC ‘alternative’ and potentially it’s the addressing inconsistency that may be forcing you onto ADSL as ‘BT’ think it’s all that’s available , that doesn’t mean FTTC is definitely available , but it’s worth exploring.

If you are already on VDSL/FTTC , ( which the router will show ) until FTTP becomes available, you are getting as good as it gets , but until you know what modulation is used you won’t know for sure what you are connected to

VDSL on a long enough line ( or a faulty line ) will deliver speeds that are also available from ADSL , so it doesn’t follow that if ( for example ) you get 8Mb then the modulation will be G992.* , if it’s VDSL/FTTC you are connected to , the modulation is G993.* even though the speed is ‘only’ 8Mb , most current BT routers work on both ADSL and VDSL .

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

RedSquirrel — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 08:15:41 GMT

@iniltous I will have a look at the router stats this evening and report back!

Is there any help we can receive from the moderators to look into this on here or how does that work?

Re: BT Wholesale Checker - Landline Number v Address

iniltous — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 09:28:55 GMT

The Mods could offer to get the ORDI check done but all that really does is check that your address on the Openreach database matches exactly the Royal Mail entry for your property and any discrepancies dealt with , ( so double entry’s removed , errors corrected ) property with ‘non standard’ addresses can have this type of issue , house names rather than house numbers , or property that have both a name and a number , but also have entry's with just the house number or just the house name , flats/apartments can have this issue too , however this problem is normally associated with customers having issues trying to move between providers, basically the new provider can’t ‘match’ the Openreach entry to the Royal Mail entry so refuse to accept the customer.
Have you checked the RM entry and compared it to the entrys on this site

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

Enter your postcode and hit enter to open up all the addresses for the postcode , does your address appear only once and is it identical to the RM entry , if it’s similar but not identical or there is more than one entry , possibly slight variations on the actual address , then submitting an ORDI request may get that corrected , if no anomalies are shown chances are ORDI will just confirm no issues on that score .