This topic

My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

eebygumcaptain — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 22:07:35 GMT

Anybody know if this is going to be a problem ?!

Im upgrading to full fibre and I’ve checked my property and it says.. single dwelling OH cable connection and no issues.

HOWEVER… my existing copper cable from my house to the telegraph pole runs through my neighbours roof space. Basically when they built their rear extension they built around my existing cable. There is no longer a line of sight to the telegraph pole because of the extension.

My concern is that when the OR engineer turns up they will either (A) refuse to use my existing cable to pull through the new fibre because it goes through my neighbours property or (B) even worse they try and the copper breaks/jams in my neighbours property and I’m left with no cobbler connection or fibre connection.

Any thoughts on what OR engineer will do or how to get around this issues ?

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

36ULW — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 07:23:22 GMT

Can’t believe your neighbour would just build an Extension around an existing Drop Wire.

I’m guessing they either just didn’t care, which says a lot about the Builder they used or the most likely explanation is they enquired with the BT and or Openreach Repayments Team about shifting it and didn’t like the cost of having a new Carrier Pole put in.

Regardless I can assure you as someone who worked on Tools for over 15 years on both Metallic Path and Fibre there is no way they’re replacing that Drop Cable through your Neighbours Attic.

I can only see one of two outcomes here.

1. Your Neighbour allows the Fibre Drop Cable to bounce off their house and then onto yours. This really isn’t a preferred method though as it opens up a can of worms regards to Wayleaves.

2. They install a new Carrier Pole and just run the new Fibre Drop Cable from Pole to Pole to your House.

If I was the SD Engineer on your install Option 2 is 100% the route I would go down.

Can’t say with 100% certainty what the crack is now but when I was on Tools because moving from a Metallic Path to Fibre was an Upgrade of Service there would’ve been no additional cost to you in regards to putting up a new Carrier Pole.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

iniltous — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 07:53:40 GMT

It may be the person who surveyed the area and specifically your address has made a mistake, if it’s clear that your copper pair dropwire is ‘non standard’ then ‘no anticipated issues’ is the wrong survey note …on the same site where you read this information should also be if the installation method is single stage or KCI2 assure, if it’s single stage then the issue will only come to light on the installation date , if it’s KCI2 ( two stage ) then there is a chance that the mitigation can be in place before the installation ( as stated , like a carrier pole )

Ive seen a few dropwires made non compliant by neighbours building extensions ( like insufficient height over the extension, because when the wire was installed there was no building there ) but actually running through the extension is a new one , and it’s incredible that the builder did that, you could (seeing as you are aware that this may be an issue ) have a word with the neighbour and get ‘permission’ in advance , if it’s necessary to ‘bounce’ the cable off this extension on route to your property, from their point of view that may be preferable to the cable running inside the loft space

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

eebygumcaptain — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 08:18:57 GMT

The BT site just says “Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.”.

i will have to speak to the neighbour about the ‘bounce’ option.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

eebygumcaptain — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 08:26:01 GMT

Thanks for the reply. Suffice to say we were in dispute about the extension; both the cost and timescale for moving my cable became an issue…. So their builder just built around it.

From the street telegraph pole my cable runs across three gardens and then my neighbours roof.

There is another telegraph pole across the road from us at the front of the house but that would require trimming a large tree (on my property) which is in a conservation area so notice will need to be given to the council.

Not going to be a quick install either way !

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

36ULW — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 08:31:54 GMT

They can run the Fibre Drop Cable through the Tree and use Tree Guards.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

iniltous — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 09:01:45 GMT

The FTTP install process ( single stage /KCI2 ) is shown on the far right hand side of the featured products section on the DSL checker , ( WBC FTTP ) and is above the survey network note which in your case is Single dwelling unit , OH no anticipated issues .

As stated if there is an alternative distribution point that can get around the issue , and that alternative is part of the same PON ( passive optical network ) then the survey may have picked up on the dropwire issue at the rear and reassigned the point at which service is provided from, to the front of the property (instead of the back ) , although it’s also possible that if the extension is relatively new , the survey may have been done months if not years before the extension was built, hence the SNN ( survey network note ) now being inaccurate.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 08:59:24 GMT

Another scenario on installation day is that Openreach rock up, chop the copper cable & then discover they can't run the fibre, leaving you with nothing. Something we've seen repeatedly posted on these forums.

Might be worth a word with your council's building control department, as it's hard to imagine that they would have signed this off.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

36ULW — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:44:00 GMT

I think you think a Clerk of Works and or Field Based Coords rigorously check each individual property when it comes to surveying a PON.

I can assure you, they don’t. If the Survey was done by a FBC for what was FND it’s highly likely it was a Desk Based Survey done using Orion and Google Street View. They may not have even done that, a lot of the time FND just built off a Ghost Plan.

If it was a COW doing one as part of the Rural Build for what was Chief Engineers they most likely did a Field Survey but wouldn’t have inspected each property to see how it’s fed. At most they wouldn’t taken a fleeting glance to see if was Overhead, Underground or External. They would’ve then most likely done a Bulk SNN Update for that particular CBT because entering individual ones would be to time consuming.

I know exactly what their tricks and short cuts are because I did the job for a while.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

eebygumcaptain — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 15:57:38 GMT

That’s my fear

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

eebygumcaptain — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 15:59:17 GMT

Found it now in landscape mode on my phone. it says 1 stage.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

iniltous — Sun, 29 Sep 2024 22:46:00 GMT

As it’s thought to be a single stage installation , the installer that turns up will not be aware of the current copper dropwire issues and no prior visit will have been made to sort issues out in advance of the contractual appointment, so if the SNN ( survey note ) isn’t a work of fiction, perhaps the pole to the front , although different to the way the copper service is delivered, is the point from which the optical cable will be provided, or if the survey was not done correctly, the danger is the installer says ‘can’t be done’ and walks away , adding delay to your installation, to get a head start on that , and if your neighbour is agreeable, ask in advance if they object to the cable ‘hitting’ their property on route to your property, if they don’t have a problem with it , and the pole at the rear is the one the installer is told is the correct one , the installer shouldn’t walk away from the job , if permission has been granted from your neighbours, although they would need to be available to ‘sign’ the appropriate permission document for the installer.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

36ULW — Mon, 30 Sep 2024 07:20:49 GMT

Believe it or not where it says 1 or 2 Stage doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be that either.

When I worked on a Dedicated FTTP SD Team (which still exist) we primarily did Step 1 Tasks. Many of the ones we picked up were still marked up as the job being a 1 Stage Installation.

Sometimes the jobs marked up as a 2 Stage would also go straight out to Installation Stage with no Step 1 visit.

Re: My copper cable runs thru neighbours roofspace

iniltous — Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:28:57 GMT

I do believe it , same as the survey policy you referred to , what’s supposed to be done and what actually gets done isn’t necessarily the same thing , however stating what’s supposed to happen still seems the appropriate thing to do.

The survey process and single stage/two stage installation processes make sense , and work if done correctly and are designed at a national level to be implemented locally , but once rolled out to local management, who may have different priorities, these processes are often ignored , if local management want to take a chance on two stage jobs by omitting the first stage and trusting to luck that on the appointment date ( the second stage ) any problems can be overcome on the day is reckless in my opinion, but I’d agree it happens far too often , thats why , in part , you get complaints on forums such as this , and significant compensation claims paid , for ignoring these laid down processes .