This topic

Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 11:59:49 GMT

Hi all,

I am moving flats in December and I've been looking at my broadband options.

My current flat has FTTP. I figured that since my new flat is served by the same exchange I'd be able to receive the same service.

This is not the case - it would appear my block of flats is the only addresses in the street that cannot receive FTTP. The buildings either side of me apparently can.

I've run the Wholesale Checker and get this result:

My knowledge of the technology around this is almost non-existent but I'm assuming the issue here may be in the WLR Withdrawal restriction?

But I'm keen for someone with more in-depth knowledge to explain why this block of flats appears to be the only anomaly in the whole street. It wouldn't be a disaster to drop back down to FTTC but I'd be keen to know why.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

imjolly — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:19:02 GMT

you can try contacting openreach and see if they can help https://www.openreach.com/broadband-network/fibre-availability

it may be the owner of the block won't give permission for the cabling

the street cabinet has nothing to do with FTTP

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:21:53 GMT

Thank you! I've filled in a form.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

Carlusha — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:33:27 GMT

@ScarfaceJoker - The obvious place to start is the building Management Company. They, on behalf of the freeholder, would know the exact situation for the building. Perhaps they did not give the go-ahead for FTTP when offered by Openreach.

I have that problem right now - the freeholder chooses to use another provider and wants to charge us for this privilege. Meanwhile, Openreach has offered free installation in the building to each apartment front door but the freeholder is not budging.

I'm damn sure I am not accepting this other provider and instead will remain on FTTC until my last breath.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

naylor2006 — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:46:16 GMT

As a check, have a look at if there are any alt nets there providing fibre, maybe even Virgin Cable, the latter being better than FTTC etc..

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:47:07 GMT

That's interesting. I'll check with my solicitor who the building management company is (I'm in that weird lull just now where I can't really do anything except wait for paperwork to go through) and make an enquiry.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

naylor2006 — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:49:26 GMT

OR is a gigantic provider of FTTP but there are plenty of altnets around, you may get lucky.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:49:32 GMT

@naylor2006 Virgin is completely unavailable, according to their checker, so it's definitely looking like it's something to do with the building or the building management.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

naylor2006 — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:57:45 GMT

There used to be an easier way of checking but I cant remember, Virgin Media is out then but there still might be another altnet. For example Truespeed delivery to the Bristol Area where I am so you might have someone else in your area. Here is a list that may or may not be helpful:

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 15:01:08 GMT

Thanks for all the replies - very much appreciated.

So, an interesting update here.

According to my solicitor, no one entity owns the building - all the owners of the flats own their own flats and that's that.

We do have a factoring company but according to my solicitor they have no say in what utilities get installed or not.

So I don't really know what the issue could be here. The block is a little more in from the road than the other properties but I don't think that should be causing any kind of blockage to installation.

Unless anyone can shed any light on a technical issue that could be preventing a roll out of FTTP to this block?

I think I actually need to speak to someone at Openreach to find out what exactly is going on - is there a direct number or is the form as good as I'm going to get?

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

iniltous — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 15:30:30 GMT

What sort of ‘flat’ is this , a house divided into flats , or a building purpose built as flats/apartments from the outset , if it’s the second option, what ‘size’ , and what configuration is your flat , , is it part of a ( relatively speaking ) large development, or a building containing 4-6 units , does each unit have its ‘front door’ facing directly onto the street , or is there a common entrance that each unit uses and therefore common areas , such as foyers, stairwells ( or lifts / elevators ) corridors etc …are any of the units in effect ‘above’ other units ( so ground floor , first floor unit , second floor etc ) in which case who is responsible for the ‘roof’ considering the roof doesn’t just keep the weather out of the unit immediately beneath but all the units are reliant on the roof integrity etc .

FWIW , it’s not unusual for a general area to have Openreach FTTP access but any MDU ( multiple dwelling units ) to be excluded from the build , MDU are considered separately , there are the occasional MDU , generally very small MDU’s that can be incorporated into the general build , if each unit can be serviced without encroachment on any common area ( where a freeholder , or management company would need to give permission ) , so an example , where a small unit of say 6 units , 3 ground floor , 3 first floor each having its own exterior front ( or rear ) entrance, those may be included in the same build as SDU ( single dwelling units ) but anything ‘high rise ‘ and that isn’t just tower blocks but much more modest ( in height ) units are not built at the same time as the surrounding ‘regular’ housing .

If you have already submitted the formwize , then that may get a response ( even if it’s a negative response )

https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-availability---customer-form

I doubt you will get any other response from OR using another avenue or method.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 15:41:28 GMT

Hi,

Thanks for that reply - that is interesting.

So it's a 4 story building with sixteen flats - four to each floor. There is a common entrance but I will have my own rear entrance.

What's puzzling me is the wayleave that's required, according to Openreach - as there's no owner of the building and the factoring company has nothing to do with utilities being installed, what's to stop me as the new owner filling in the wayleave form?

Sorry if I'm sounding like a luddite here - just seems very odd.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

iniltous — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 18:34:05 GMT

Do the 4 ground floor flats have their own exclusive outside space ( a garden in effect ) if they do , arguably they can be served without requiring anyone but themselves to grant permission, obviously the other 12 flats cannot be served ( if the cable were delivered underground ) without permission from one ground floor flat owner and potentially , if a top floor flat , permission from the three flats below their cable would need to pass over to get to them ( that’s assuming underground service, that transitions to cable on wall ) .

Should service be overhead ( telegraph poles ) then potentially no permission required, if the flat requiring service has an aspect that faces the pole , if the pole was on the opposite side of the building , then permissions may be required again , to connect to someone else’s flat and then cable around the building, and as a four storey building, once over a standard height, that may have its own issues….generally this not the way flats are served, or underground and then cable on wall for that matter .

The existing copper cabling was probably installed during construction, from a common point within the building ( like a utility cupboard or area , and copper cables to each flat , installed at ‘first fix ‘ ) so nothing visible after the finished wall surfaces are provided, so no individual permits required at that point , only an agreement with the developer, who’s self interest was to have cabling installed at this time .

Retro fitting a FTTP network, usually follows a similar pattern ( apart from the cabling cannot be as unobtrusive as the original copper cabling ) , so from a common point within the building , a cable ( but an optical cable ) ran to each unit internally, either surface wired ( along common areas ) or in false ceilings and cable risers to get to upper floors this is why ( normally ) permits are needed from the freeholder , managing agent or whoever , as someone on the fourth floor ( for arguments sake ) can’t give permission to cable from the ground floor to the fourth floor , also it makes sense to block wire the building in one extended period ( giving all 16 flats FTTP availability ) rather than potentially visiting 16 times , should each flat eventually order FTTP , but over a period of many months or years …. block wiring would leave an optical termination point outside each flat , leaving only a relatively small amount of work should any of the flats order service .

The ownership of your building is not the usual with regard to MDU , but before embarking on work like this OR would need some sort of binding agreement from each flat owner if there isn’t a managing agent or freeholder to grant permission….out of curiosity, presumably there will be some common areas , otherwise how do the fourth floor occupants get to their flats , presumably these common areas have lighting, heating , carpets , decor and are periodically cleaned , decorated etc , who pays for that ?, I would have thought you all pay a service charge for the upkeep of areas like this

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 19:10:55 GMT

Thanks again for the helpful reply. There is a factoring company who look after communal spaces but they don't deal with any utilities.

I'm not in the building yet so this is something I'll need to research more full. My flat will have its own garden space and separate back door entrance alongside a front door in the communal entrance.

I'm not in the building yet so this is something I'll need to research more fully.

I'll update if I make any more progress beforehand. Thanks again for your help.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

36ULW — Sat, 02 Nov 2024 13:41:48 GMT

In order for Openreach or any other Alt Net to build Fibre in the MDU they would need to Permission of the MA, be it an individual or Company.

Residents and or their Landlords may own the individual flats but the Building and Land it sits on must belong to someone. That’ll be who Openreach needs to get permission from.

Unfortunately finding said Person/Company can be almost impossible, even for a Company as big as Openreach. For example a lot of the High Density Blocks in larger Cities like London and Birmingham are owned by overseas People/Company’s in places like the UAE. In reality they couldn’t care less about whether the Residents have access to Full Fibre or not, they only own the Land/Building as an Investment or to own as an asset.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ptrduffy — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 11:46:44 GMT

@ScarfaceJoker- are you in Scotland by any chance? The situation is a little different here, as there is no leaseholder/freeholder distinction here.

OR will still need a Wayleave if the cable has to cross multiple properties' walls, but that can be provided by the individual owners - you should be able to get the factor to coordinate the process.

Re: Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

ScarfaceJoker — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 11:52:09 GMT

I am! It was over the weekend that this crossed my mind as I keep forgetting all the different legal things here.

I'll chat to the factors (who are, in the words of my solicitors, "awful to deal with" but I like a challenge) and see if I can get things moving.

I am bringing the average age in this block down by quite a bit so I imagine there's not been a tremendous amount of appetite for it, but I'll see how far I get.