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Ref: Full Fibre Installation

anandass — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 09:49:04 GMT

Hi ,

Am writing to request an upgrade to full fibre {order as above }concerns regarding the handling of my order and the subsequent service visit by a contracted engineer{From Kelly}. Below is a detailed account of the issues:

Specific Installation Request:

When I placed my order, I explicitly requested that the Optical Network Terminal (ONT) be installed in my fully boarded loft. I also informed BT that the power requirements for the installation were already provided. This requirement was made very clear at the time of placing the order and was a critical part of my expectations for the installation process.

Concerns Over Security and Aesthetics:

I explained that our property’s cable feed originates from a pole that serves all nearby houses. I also highlighted concerns about security and the placement of Connection Point (CP) boxes at ground level. I requested that the CP box be installed at a high level, to align with both security considerations and aesthetic preferences.

Engineer Visit:

Despite my clear instructions, the engineer who arrived for the installation was a contractor working for Kelly. When I reiterated my installation requirements, particularly the loft placement for the ONT and the high-level CP box, the engineer’s response was dismissive and uncooperative. He was unwilling to work towards a solution that met my needs and left without completing the installation.

it so sad to see that BT is not aware issues happening at cuomer`s end

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

iniltous — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 11:05:47 GMT

You can make as many requests as you like , they do not form a part of any contract, they are requests than can and will be refused if unsafe or unreasonable as far as time spent completing that request.

So your requests are , ONT in a boarded loft , CSP fitted at height , but that’s all they are requests , BT ( and every other ISP that consumes Openreach products ) have no ‘right’ , in the same way you don’t , to dictate what Openreach will or won’t do , in effect you wasted your breath ‘telling’ BT this , and if the BT ‘guide’ explicitly said the installation will be exactly to your specifications, they shouldn’t have .

You make your request to the installer , TBH , if your requirements were passed onto an installer, that knew , even without visiting that your requests were not going to be acceptable, they may not have even turned up , why bother to travel if you know you won’t fit a CSP from the top of a ladder and that’s what the customer wants .

Boarded loft , so is this a proper room ( so has building regulations ? ) does it have a proper staircase with handrail to access it , is it fully boarded and properly lit ? , if all these conditions are not met the installer is quite within their rights to no enter that area , let alone fit any equipment in it .

CSP at height , the safety reason for CSP to be at a low lever trumps any aesthetic reason you may have for wanting it height ….in a nutshell your can’t insist that someone does something they consider to be unsafe , even if you don’t think it’s unsafe and even if the ‘order taker’ suggested that your requirements will be met.

However , contractors more so than direct labour, often will look to ‘drop’ unconventional or ‘demanding’ installations in favour of ‘vanilla’ installations that are quick and easy , ( and not have to contend with those that expect a ‘Savile Row’ suit for an ‘off the peg’ price ) ….if you haven’t cancelled, then the revisit should be an Openreach tech ( not another contractor ) , however even they may take the same stance and refuse your requests if they are genuinely unacceptable , or they may suggest the contractor was being difficult, and do as you require.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

anandass — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:47:03 GMT

Thank foir your reply , from your last para reply, fully aware of how fibre deplyment , If customers dont have much say in this matter , of the location -simple solution is to can the order I think.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

iniltous — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 11:02:07 GMT

Customers do have choice in relation to the location of the ONT , provided it’s reasonable …..if a mutually agreed location cannot be found , then cancellation may be the only thing to do …..if ( as an example ) a customer wanted the ONT at the rear of the property when the the optical feed is at the front , and insists no external cable on wall ( or perhaps the property is terraced so no way to cable externally front to back ) then if that internal cable run would take hours ( and the householder hasn’t even cleared furniture from the walls ) then that is an unreasonable request, this example doesn’t even have any safety concerns it’s simply an unrealistic expectation of the amount of time that would be required …OR offer a more expensive installation ( that the ISP doubtless would pass on to the customer ) if they know their requirements are greater than most , would you be prepared to pay a premium for that ?

FYI , you can always run your own Ethernet cable from the acceptable ( from the installers point of view ) ONT location to your preferred router location.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

anandass — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 12:20:57 GMT

Very strange my next door neighbour had his fibre installed yesterday znd the engineer was extremely helpful and he did a good job most of all he did not even try and strap the fibre cable on next door neighbour's gutter pipes ( which I obviously object .

What is so disappointing was the engineer wasn't keen in having a workable solution , other than find an excuse not to do the job , to add to this I even told him to follow the copper cable feed now and possibly comprises with CP box location near ground level ( just like my neighbour's location of CP

I do feel BT Openreach is employed 3rd party to do the job and BT 's name get dragged

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

pippincp — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:53:30 GMT

No such company as BT Openreach.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

36ULW — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 18:42:33 GMT

Openreach won’t install CSP’s (what you call CP, which in Telecoms Jargon actually means Communications Provider) at height, i.e. at the eves.

It either goes at ground level or they take the Drop Wire directly into the attic and use an Internal CSP.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

anandass — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:34:43 GMT

So can they either goes at ground level {where the power is available /Not sure how another enginner was able to do on my next door neifghbour`s was no probelm there } or beter still Can they take the Drop Wire directly into the attic and use an Internal CSP- I have seen other BT customers had this done -hence I asked the same .

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

anandass — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 08:50:40 GMT

36ULW
36ULW
Aspiring Expert

Thank you , you have put me in the correct direction.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

iniltous — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 10:17:25 GMT

I’m not sure this is the silver bullet you think it is , an internal CSP ‘may’ get around the CSP at low level , and avoid the drop cable attaching at height and running down the wall to a low level CSP , but you still face the potential problem of loft access ( if that’s where you would want the internal CSP ) , plus AFAIK, internal CSP’s won’t necessarily be carried by every installation technician….and finally an external CSP is preferred ( from Openreach’s point of view ) as it’s a convenient place to test , obviously if the CSP is internal access is required inside the premises to perform the same test ,

as already stated , much depends on the individual that arrives to do the job , some ( not all ) contractors , who are paid on how many jobs they complete are less likely to spend ‘extra’ time doing a job , Openreach techs don’t get paid the same way , so ( to a large extent ) a job takes as long as it takes , they don’t ‘suffer’ financially.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

36ULW — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 17:40:41 GMT

When I was a CST the use of Internal CSP’s was initially to be used on Listed Buildings and Blocks of Flats where the individual dwellings were fed individually by their own Drop Cable.

From what I’m told now most Openreach Engineers will install one if asked to by the EU. Purely for getting the job done purposes as they don’t want their PL or PM breathing down their neck about sending jobs back. BT and Openreach are very heavily Stat and Productivity oriented.

Regards to accessing Lofts/Attics. This has always been a grey area. Some say you shouldn’t as it’s technically a confined space but then so is working on the top floor of a 16 Storey Tower Block and also I bet a months Salary those same Engineers who say you shouldn’t access a loft would be more than happy to go into the 2nd or 3rd tier of a Man Hole.

I used to work in attics, just as long as they were boarded, and I mean boarded. Not some old cupboard doors chucked on the insulation. Was never even that bothered if it was lit or not because Openreach provided Handheld Torches and Head Torches.

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

anandass — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 22:16:46 GMT

Thank you very much for your comments, is Sad NOT many openreach engineers now days ,all Kelly -enginners-Not even a video calls prior to home visit would have made the enginners` job better and not to waste the appointment , even now I am not confortable with next visit -No one is accountable thease days

Re: Ref: Full Fibre Installation

36ULW — Sun, 15 Dec 2024 12:42:31 GMT

Openreach are offloading Engineers and other staff like there’s no tomorrow. Thousands have already left on Voluntary Paid Leavers Scheme and Openreach want thousands more gone.

Within the next few years the majority of their workforce will be made up of Contractors, all of which will be paid on Price Work, including the ones who do Repair Work.