This topic

Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 10:07:11 GMT

Hi, just asking for some advice here as the rep at BT has left me feeling a little bit frustrated.

Recently decided to upgrade my existing BT package from a copper package to full fiber.

Went through the options on the phone with BT, picked the 900 package and all seemed fine and was given an install date, although it mentioned openreach would attend the property in the mean time but wouldnt need access just to do some external work. Booked the day off and got on with life.

Bumped into an openreach engineer on the way home from the school run a week or so later and he said that he had left the metal plate off, the engineer on the install would sort it and they would use existing wire to pull the new wire through. Im not an engineer, so I just left him to get on with it, then waited for my install date.

Install date rolls round, engineer turns up, didnt seem like he wanted to be there as was on the phone to a friend the whole time, walked mud across the house, within minutes is saying he wont be able to do the install.

Ask what the issue is, he tells me that the current master socket is the other end of the house and there's no way of getting to it as lines are probably under the house. Says he could possibly drill through our kitchen tiles downstairs and have it in the kitchen, failing that, my choices were either have it in my 5 year olds room upstairs or in the middle of the hallway downstairs. Mentioned the upstairs bathroom as well, then decided he couldn't as there were no double plugs... because obviously you'd put a router in the bathroom. Said it would be better if we just left the install for now and kicked it back to openreach for a survey to be carried out. At this point I wasn't overly keen on him doing any sort of work, so agreed.

Rang BT, explained what had happened, told to call back next day, do so, told new appointment set, give me a date, book the day off, all looks good again.

Day before what I thought was the survey, got a text from engineer say he would be with me at 8am for the install. Messaged back to say I thought it was a survey, said he had no notes about it, so I said come out and we can discuss in the morning.

He turns up, lovely lad, but explained he was just there to do the install on openreach's behalf, said there was nothing about a survey, as that would have to be someone from openreach and that the previous install had been closed as a failed install due to customer not present or answering phone?

He had a look about, saw the issue with the master socket and everything going to it being on the opposite side of the house, gave me some options, including running it to the roof and down, running it along the wall ect, definitely things we could do to keep the Internet coming into the living room, but unfortunately because he isn't the right team, he wouldn't be able to do it himself and we would need openreach out for the survey first. He also then said there was an issue with where the line comes in outside to the front of the property, as the existing cables weren't moving so may need to have a duct dug out to get the fiber ran in.

Fantastic lad, spotted all the issues that I'm sure would have come back from the survey if that had actually been arranged instead of a install, but he can't do it as he isn't openreach and doesnt have the kit, knowledge or permission to carry out much more than drilling a few holes and running wires so would need them out to survey both inside and outside to come up with a solution to get it to or as near to the master socket as possible and not sat in a hallway.

Back on phone to BT, raise complaint at this point, rep is very understanding, but can't do much til openreach close it down there end, told to call back tomorrow. 5 hours later complaint gets closed as resolved, call again to see how it was resolved, told it wasn't and was closed in error, please call again tomorrow. Then get a text saying a survey needs to be carried out and that someone will be in touch after the survey.

So I call this morning, get a chap who tells me that I need a survey carrying out...(really).

Says that openreach will attend sometime in the next 30 days, but should be within 11. Ask when so I can be in, says they dont need to get into the property. This is where i lost my patience a bit, as I kept asking how they are going to survey inside to get around the issue with the master socket if they can't get in. He kept telling me that it's not on BT to tell openreach what to do and didnt seem to understand my frustration that while it may resolve one of the issues of the duct not being installed properly, how it's not going to lead to another failed install when the next engineer turns up to do the internal install and realises the master socket is on the other side of the house and he isn't able to do anything without an internal survey as the previous engineer had explained one would need to take place first?

I said if it was going to drag on with issue after issue, i would probably just cancel it as its affecting my ability to manage my account due to there being an open order, I keep getting reminders to return the old equipment or face a fine and im not going to keep using up my holiday days to be told sorry, better luck next time. He said thats my perogative. No apologise, no accountability on BT or Openreach's end, no sorry the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing, just well, thats up to you. Then to top it off, I was then told that the majority of installs go ahead with no problems, like it was my fault or something, but that sometimes there are delays and that neither of us knew any better than the openreach engineers, so nothing can be done for now, expect someone to make contact by the 30th Aug.

I first started this process on the 14th July, I am now nearly a month down the line, with at least two weeks to go to wait to find out when my next failed installation will take place.

Is this normal? Raising a complaint seems to have had no effect to getting anything sorted, what are my options in terms of cancellation of the existing order and the rest of my year or so left on the broadband as the TV runs out next month and is cancelled already, so thinking I may just be better off going elsewhere.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 10:12:09 GMT

Sorry for ranting, just felt overly frustrated after getting off the phone

Re: Failed Fiber installation

imjolly — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 11:29:12 GMT

I am not sure what the fixation with the existing master socket as has nothing to do with the installation of FTTP - unless you have asked for installer try and install the ONT near existing master

Re: Failed Fiber installation

gg30340 — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 11:39:16 GMT

Just so that you are aware. If you do go else where you may find that the ISP that you go with also use the Openreach infrastructure so you will have the same issue as now.

Obviously we have no idea as to the lay out of your property but there is no need to have the fibre coming into your property at the same place as the master socket. When fibre is installed your master socket is redundant.

Depending on where you want the "modem" it may require the Fibre cable running along your house wall to where you want it to enter the house if it is not possible to dig and duct the cable.

You could have the entry point on any external wall preferably at ground level as long as it is close to a double socket so that the "modem" can be plugged in then you can run an Ethernet cable internally to where ever you want to site your Smarthub2.

Most, but obviously not all as you have found out, Openreach installers will try and accommodate what the customer wants and if that is not possible they will explain why that can not be done and offer solutions.

Book an appointment and be there to discuss with the installer what you want to happen.

While a survey may ultimately be needed from what you have posted so far I think you have just been unlucky with the first installer.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 12:57:23 GMT

Not sure I'd say it was a fixation on the master socket, maybe i didnt explain my issue very well.

First engineer says i cant have the Internet coming in where it is now, as its the other side of the house from the front of the property where the fiber would come in.

Says I can have it in the kitchen if he can drill the tiles, in my 5 year olds room upstairs, in the bathroom, but only if I have two plugs, or in the hallway by the front door on the floor.

As all devices are currently hardwired to the router from where it is, I didnt know that it wouldnt just automatically go there. I have asked for it to be as close to there as possible so i can continue to use all my devices hardwired and not have to use everything on WiFi from the otherside of the house.

Ive had various engineers out for other issues including speed and signal, been told better speeds would solve a lot of my issues once fiber is available, it never came up that once during discussions about upgrading to fiber that was going to cause issues.

Fast forward to now. Having it in the entrance hallway on the other side of the house as per the first engineers suggestion isn't feasible as id be walking around a router on the floor in a narrow hallway and eveything would be on WiFi rather than ethernet, which given the issues ive had already with the signal here, I wouldnt be keen on.

FTTP, ONT? Thank you for responding, but you are talking to me like im not having to Google what you mean.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

imjolly — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:16:40 GMT

from google this explains the elements https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation

there will be a box installed on outside wall of your home (CSP) and the internal cable is connected to external cable in the CSP the internal cable then is connected to the ONT (white box like modem) and then ethernet cable from the ONT to your BT Hub - in simple terms

is fibre cable coming from pole at back of your home?

Re: Failed Fiber installation

gg30340 — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:26:31 GMT

As I said in my previous post "You could have the entry point on any external wall preferably at ground level as long as it is close to a double socket so that the "modem" can be plugged in then you can run an Ethernet cable internally to where ever you want to site your Smarthub2.".

I should add that the ONT (modem) is a small box attached to the wall and would not impede anybody passing. As per above, the BT router does not need to be beside it or even in the hallway.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:21:06 GMT

Thank you re the installers. My issue is that BT is saying I dont need to be present as they wont enter the property, so the next time I speak to someone in person will be the third installer from or on behalf of openreach on my next installation date, which is yet to be set pending the external survey.

So I dont understand how the external survey carried out without my presence is going to change an engineer coming for the third time, saying they can only put it in the places ive mentioned, and that if I want it somewhere else, I will require a internal survey, as apparently requested already by the previous two engineers?

This is baring in mind that so far:

Signed for upgrade on 17th July

I had a Openreach engineer to check the outside of the property pre installation about a week or so later, said all good, next guy will sort this plate out and run the cable.

Second engineer on install date, can't run anything in without putting it in places mentioned, told me to get a survey first, no mention of issues outside, came across like he didnt want to be here or do anything, closed the job as couldn't gain entry or contact customer.

BT contacted, situation explained, survey supposedly booked.

Third engineer comes yesterday, says yeah, we can probably run it to your living room, but I'm not authorised as im working on behalf of Openreach, your probably going to want a survey done first, im just here for an installation, by the way, think there may be an issues outside requiring another survey and probably a bit of work.

BT contacted again, told me its not on them, Openreach will do an external survey at some point between now and end of August, then you'll hear back from us with an install date.

While hopefully any issues at the front of the property will be fixed by then, not sure what would change re the inside unless like you say, ive either been unlucky with engineers or i am being unreasonable asking for it to go to my living room

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:36:57 GMT

Sorry, Im probably replying out of order as was expecting my replies to post under and not as a thread, my bad.

The cable comes in at the front to a grey box then disappears, according to the engineer either through the wall or under the floors, not sure as we rent, then comes back out at the back of the property into the large socket which is labelled Master Socket SC, Open Reach MK4, then black cable from that goes into Smart Hub.

It's probably not helped that we are the middle house in a terrace, so the only external walls i have are the front wall and back wall.

I really want the better speeds as am on 68mb at the moment, having come across from VM 200 odd a few years back before we moved, but understand it may not be feasible with the way it currently is if i want everything still plugged into the hub. I just wanted to know whay my options are, cancel and stay as I am, look into repeaters, look at running a lead? Can't really do much until the survey is completed and they are back when im here i guess.

Just have had bad experience already with WiFi only, especially in this house for some reason.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

gg30340 — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:44:16 GMT

If you are prepared to run Ethernet from the hall you have the hall as your point of entry then as I have repeatedly said, run Ethernet cable to where ever you want your BT Hub sited.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 14:59:28 GMT

Ok, sounds reasonable enough, was thrown when he said id need the hub in the hallway, if it's just a box on the wall then I dont mind where it is as long as it's not a hub on the floor as the first guy explained it

Re: Failed Fiber installation

iniltous — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:40:52 GMT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XDl0-KkPy8&t=60
https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist

If the master socket is at the rear of the property and you have provided your own Ethernet cabling from here ( because it where router is also located ) and the new FTTP service will appear at the front of the property, then another Openreach survey will not achieve anything as the position the fibre will appear is ‘fixed’ at the front , with a semi or detached house then cable on wall may be used to get a cable to the rear but in a terrace that’s not really possible.

FYI , Openreach won’t spend ages running a cable internally front to rear , so a compromise will be necessary, ( usually the ONT located at the front near where the optical cable enters ) if this isn’t possible then you may as well cancel and continue to use your existing copper pair based service as it’s unclear how you and the installer will be unlikely to agree

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:45:26 GMT

Ok, thanks. Makes more sense now. As I said, was thrown when he said the hub would have to be in the hallway on the floor, guessing he wasn't talking about the Smart hub. Can run a cable myself to the hub even from the hallway, may just have to move living room round a bit

Re: Failed Fiber installation

chrisjp — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 16:15:35 GMT

It would save BT, Openreach and the customers a whole lot of time and trouble if Openreach always sent out a representative to do a site survey BEFORE a date for full fibre installation was agreed.
That would avoid multiple failed visits by Openreach or their contractors' technicians coming out to do an installation and finding it's not possible until further work has been done.
Once the site survey had been done, Openreach would prepare an installation plan, the customer would accept it, and BT could then arrange an installation date.
This is standard project management practice, why on earth doesn't Openreach adopt it?

Re: Failed Fiber installation

iniltous — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 16:27:09 GMT

The vast majority of provides don’t need two visits , and visits cost money , so making every ‘job’ two visits would put up the price , and that eventually will be paid by the customer, there are already two stage installs where it’s clear at survey that the network will need work to get to the house wall , so in those cases it’s four visits necessary , that’s nonsensical , plus it also means the customer has to be at home several times .

The poor experiences posted on here are not representative, straightforward installations rarely motivate the customer to post , generally only those with problems tend to , so it’s easy to get the wrong impression…if 90+ out if a hundred installations are successful, (probably a reasonable guesstimate) you don’t build in two visits on jobs you know are likely not to need it

Re: Failed Fiber installation

licquorice — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 16:29:38 GMT

@chrisjp Do you seriously think that the hundreds of thousands of installations that Openreach perform all require an individual survey and installation plan. Have you any idea of the extra cost this would entail compared to the very few failed installations?

I suspect that 90% of installations go ahead without a hitch

Typing as @iniltous posted

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 18:21:09 GMT

I've had my questions answered faster and in a more understandable way here than I have from speaking to BT or Openreach over the last month. I think the issue was more about understanding the process and the confusion when the engineer kept saying about the hub going in the hallway, thinking he meant the smart hub. Joe public isn't necessarily clued into the ins and outs of fiber installation

Re: Failed Fiber installation

36ULW — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 18:33:44 GMT

Openreach doesn’t do Surveys of the inside of peoples homes for Metallic Path/Fibre Installs.

How the Cable is brought into the house to where the EU wants the NTE and or ONT is to be agreed by the Installer and EU.

The, Fantastic Lad as you call him was wrong to say it needs a Survey because there is no such thing. It is his job to, ‘Engineer’ it.

By the sounds of it you live in a mid terrace and or town house with the existing NTE at the back.

You’ve got 4 options;

1. Have it installed in the kitchen.

2. Have it installed in your kids bedroom.

3. Have it installed in the hallway.

4. Ask BT/EE for a Premium Install as that entitles you to a 50m cable run internally so they’ll be able to get it to the living room, although that’ll mean tacking the cables over skirting boards and around door frames, which will look gash.

Personally I’d go for option 3.

Re: Failed Fiber installation

damofitz — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 18:57:32 GMT

The lad was working on behalf of open reach, MG Quinn I think, maybe he hasn't explained properly or more likely I misunderstood, but to give him his dues, he identified the problem with the duct outside that niether of the previous two had, so at least I know someone is coming to look at/ sort that.

Probably will have it in the hallway, but obviously if I want my devices hardwired, I'll still need to run a cable. Where id like it isn't far into the other room, so may look into the premium install as didnt even know such a thing existed.

Thanks for the tips

Re: Failed Fiber installation

36ULW — Thu, 14 Aug 2025 20:56:20 GMT

Openreach average over 40,000 FTTP Installations a week.

They would have to employ probably 8,000 Surveyors to meet demand. That’s with each Surveyor doing 5 Surveys a day, which would all have to be done by appointment.

A Surveyor in Openreach is classed as a, Specialist Engineer Grade, which is £41,000 a year with 10% None Pensionable Pay, or a 10% Bonus as Openreach like to pretend it is.

So the Salary Bill alone is £320 Million a year.

Then those 8,000 Surveyors need vans to travel in. They ain’t cheap, even if Openreach bought them on all close to the Wholesale Price you’re still talking millions of pounds. Plus you’ve got the constant maintenance and fuel costs for said vans.

Basically what I’m saying is your idea is completely flawed and makes zero sense.