This topic

Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 17:32:01 GMT

Now that fibre broadband and digital voice systems are taking over much of the existing network, landlines will eventually become obsolete. Has BT made any signs that line rental will also become obsolete? Will we continue to pay for something that isn't actually there? Or will it be replaced by a different kind of charge ? Not seen any mention of this in any BT advertising or information as yet.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Keith_Beddoe — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 17:38:51 GMT

@Tarnbrick

Its because Line Rental is included in the cost of all broadband packages.

You still have to pay for the rental of the fibre or copper connection, whether you want a phone service or not.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

licquorice — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 17:45:14 GMT

@Tarnbrick wrote:

Now that fibre broadband and digital voice systems are taking over much of the existing network, landlines will eventually become obsolete. Has BT made any signs that line rental will also become obsolete? Will we continue to pay for something that isn't actually there? Or will it be replaced by a different kind of charge ? Not seen any mention of this in any BT advertising or information as yet.

Broadband doesn't arrive by magic, it needs a line. Line rental (physical medium) has nothing to do with landline (telephony capability).

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:10:31 GMT

Yes I know it doesn't arrive by magic. How can you say line rental has nothing to do with landline? I pay line rental to pay for the use of the copper cable ( known as a landline) that brings the phone service to my house. When I stop using it I don't expect to have to continue paying for it. The point of my post is to query whether BT intend to replace this charge with a different one to cover the cost of supplying the phone service within the fibre cable which you would think would not be as costly as the copper landline maintenence costs. I have heard that this may be known as a " cloud charge" but that might just be a rumour. It also looks likely that the line rental saver scheme will cease.

Maybe somebody at BT will let us know.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:19:25 GMT

Yes Keith and hello again.

I posted because it just occurred to me that when all the copper lines are obsolete the maintenance costs of the fibre lines will or should be less. Consequently will the old line rental charges alter and thus reduce the prices of broadband packages where they are now included. Also it probably means the end of the line rental saver scheme.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

licquorice — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:22:47 GMT

You are paying for the copper or fibre line that delivers your broadband which may or may not also deliver a telephony service. The copper cable is not known as a 'landline'. 'Landline' is the term used for the telephony service via a fixed line, not the line itself.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:53:12 GMT

I have had a telephone service via a copper cable for over sixty years, long before the Internet and broadband were invented, and have always referred to it as a landline. Everybody I know refers to it as a landline, as do several dictionaries. I am grateful for your information that this is incorrect.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

jac_95 — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 19:22:50 GMT

The cost in your case is there as a maintenance fee. If you have digital voice then there's also the cost to the VoIP service and usage to that.

If you drop digital voice and go broadband only you can save a a few £s. Then you just pay for the broadband and maintenance and any extras.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 19:42:54 GMT

Thank you for that. I have been with BT for many years and have had BT internet since it first began which I think was about 1998. So I have seen every change for better or worse. It has never been easy to work out the way BT charge for the various services and sometimes you think they do it on purpose to aggravate you. Last time I spoke to a person from BT they said the billing system was due to be simplified. Oh dear!!

Re: Line rental and VoIP

iniltous — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 20:11:47 GMT

BT already ‘sell’ , a ‘landline’ free broadband package, it’s £2- £5 cheaper than the equivalent broadband with a telephone service , however by calling it ‘no landline’ perpetuates the misconception that line rental and telephony are the same thing .
The move to full fibre ‘FTTP’ , doesn’t in itself remove ‘line rental’ ,but even with other forms of broadband it’s been years ( decades ) since there was a separate line rental and broadband charge on a customer’s bill that purchases ‘broadband’ , it’s a single charge for ‘service’ .
The change to FTTP and replacement of the copper pair is irrelevant from that point of view , there is a physical connection that delivers a service, it’s now fibre instead of copper , obviously it isn’t supplied for ‘free’ , it’s rented to the consumer by the provider, so what’s the problem calling it ‘line rental ‘ ?

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 09:09:24 GMT

I would thank all the people who have responded to my original post -

But - The post was not about the technical definition of a landline

It was not about the technical definition of line rental

It was not about the fact that the charge previously known as line rental is not shown seperately but is now included in the broadband package price.

It was not about the fact that some people have broadband without a telephone service included.

So maybe I have chosen the wrong words in my original post.

Let me try again by stripping it down to bare essentials.-

We pay to have a telephone service delivered to our property. The old system is being replaced by a new system but obviously we must continue to pay for it to be delivered to the property. My very long experience of BT, going all the way back to when it was known as Post Office Telephones, tells me that there is a very good chance that a new system will bring a new method of charging for it. At the moment BT say the charges will not alter when you move over to the new system. So my query to the Moderators/Experts/Gurus on this Forum, who have their ears to the ground, is have they heard of any signs or indications from BT that the charging system will change, probably not to the benefit of the customers.

I apologize if my original post was not up to my usual magnificent standard..

Re: Line rental and VoIP

conrad — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 12:40:57 GMT

If you were on an adsl copper only connection then to get VOIP the line would have to be upgraded to fibre with a rise in the monthly cost. If you were on a fibre connection there would be no change to that when being put onto VOIP and no change in the monthly cost - you just get provided with the relevant equipment to carry on as normal which is what BT currently does.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Keith_Beddoe — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 12:48:38 GMT

@conrad

BT Digital Voice can operate over an ADSL connection, as its bandwidth requirements are very tiny.

All that will happen on ADSL, is that the termination to the PSTN equipment will be ceased, the rest of the circuit from the copper MSAN will remain.

There are lots of people who only have ADSL as an option. Also those who have no interest in regrading onto fibre with a new contract and an increase in price.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 13:02:30 GMT

@Tarnbrickwrote:
any signs or indications from BT that the charging system will change, probably not to the benefit of the customers.

The charging system has already changed to the detriment of customers with the introduction of the "no phone" option. Instead of reducing prices for not having a phone, the prices were kept the same with additional charges added for a phone service.

As has been touched on in recent threads, it's probably time that the whole concept of line rental for broadband packages was consigned to history, given you can't have broadband without a "line", be it copper, fibre or a combination of the two.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

licquorice — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 13:37:21 GMT

Put very simply, the charges for telephony are exactly the same regardless of how that service is delivered. As far as I'm aware, there are no plans to change that.

If you think about it logically, broadband and telephony exist together on the same pair of wires regardless of if the telephony is analogue or digital.

Re: Line rental and VoIP

Tarnbrick — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 12:06:47 GMT

Yes you are correct and I agree with what you say.

The reason I am asking about any possible change in charges is because BT have just announced that the pause in the roll-out of their VoIP (Digital Voice) is ending and the roll-out will re-commence in April 2023.

Considering that calls via this method will be cheaper, or even free, for instance it is said that calls which presently cost £1 to £2 will probably cost 10p to 12p, especially to other countries. Will BT be having a look at the prices they charge for calling plans in the future for customers using VoIP? I thought maybe somebody on this forum may have heard something about it from a BT source.