This topic

Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:37:36 GMT

I'm totally confused.

I've had BT fibre broadband (FTTC) and BT TV for 6 years, although my broadband package has changed it's name several times. It started out as 'Unlimited BT Infinity 1' (with download speed up to 78 Mbps), then in mid-2018 it became 'Superfast Fibre 1 Unlimited', changed to 'Fibre 1 and Calls' in spring 2020 and changed to 'Fibre 1' in autumn 2020.

I ran some broadband speed checks (BT and several others) in 2017 and a few since then, and they consistently reported my download speed was around 55 Mbps. I'm not sure what speed the various packages were supposed to offer, but I gradually got the impression that BT were reducing the speed of Fibre 1 and introducing Fibre 2 at a higher price for average download speeds of 45-68 Mbps and as a result I changed my package to Fibre 2 in December 2022.

Over the past few weeks my BT TV box has occasionally reported a problem with the internet connection but seemed to resolve itself after a few minutes. I now believe this was due to a faulty BT Mini Connector which finally completely failed last night (no power light and dead) and rectified as I fortunately had a spare. However, over the past week or so while checking my internet connection as advised by the BT TV message, I checked my router and ran some new broadband speed checks.

To my surprise, my download speed was now only around 43 Mbps (down from 55Mbps previously), yet My BT product details (and my bills) say I have Fibre 2 and all my internet searches suggest that this still provides download speed of 45-68 Mbps. I should say that I have always switched off my ASUS modem router every night before going to bed, so I was concerned that has resulted in my line being capped at Fibre 1 speed.

I was on a web chat with BT this afternoon to discuss this (I'm hearing disabled so can't make phone calls) and the agent told me the following;

Fibre 2 @ £39.17
This package gives you:
An estimated download speed of between 40-45 Mbps
An estimated upload speed of between 12-14 Mbps
This package includes:
Stay Fast Guarantee
Unlimited monthly broadband usage
UK and Ireland call centres - you will always speak to one of our team based in the UK & Ireland when you call us

I told the agent that download speed looked like Fibre 1 and the reply was that Fibre 1 and Fibre 2 had the same download speed.

Before sending lots of details of my settings, logs and BT Broadband Availability Checker results , can any of the Distinguished Sages please tell me if what the agent said is correct and if not, then what are the Fibre 2 speeds that I should expect.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

licquorice — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 19:17:53 GMT

He was correct in a way. If your line is only capable of a download speed of less than 55M, it matters not whether you are on Fibre1 or Fibre2.

Continuously switching your router on and off is not going to help your cause.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

iniltous — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 19:54:37 GMT

F1 upto 55Mb download / 10 upload , F2 upto 80Mb download / 20 upload , because your estimated upload is over 10Mb , it must be F2 regardless of the estimated download being below 55Mb.

The overriding factor is line length , but defects on the line can impact the speed, if a ‘clean’ line had a download limit of around 40Mb -50Mb primarily due to its length , arguably purchasing F2 is pointless unless the extra upload is sufficient to be worth the extra cost, if the max attainable is ( for arguments sake ) 60Mb and it’s a defect holding the line down to 40-50Mb , obviously fixing the defect should get the download speed back up towards the maximum attainable, that’s where the router statistics will help

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 20:42:11 GMT

Thanks

I understand both replies but wanted to be sure that there can be higher speed for Fibre 2 if conditions are right.

No point getting an engineer out if they are designed to be the same as claimed by the chat agent. FYI here is my Broadband Availability Checker result ...

I've also found that my DSL connection has been going up and down a lot. Twice on Sept 11, 14 times on Sept 13, 54 times yesterday Oct 4 and 8 times today Oct 5.Been fine on all other days.

Never had anything like this before so clearly some fault has developed on the line or in my ASUS modem router. I'll swap that tomorow and revert to the BT HH6 which will also allow BT access for testing and diagnostics. I'll book an engineer if I still get the problemm with the HH6.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

iniltous — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 07:33:13 GMT

Potentially better speeds are available according to the DSL checker , but without reference to the router statistics you will never know for sure

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

Midnight_Voice — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 07:44:24 GMT

@ByJings

You should not switch your router off overnight.

BT’s end, when looking at what speeds might be achievable for you, will notice this as a failure, and tend to back off your speed in order to avoid this.

Leave your router on instead, and you should hope to see your speeds climbing back towards the theoretical maxima you expect.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

imjolly — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:08:33 GMT

@ByJings

can you post stats from your hub - hub manager/advanced settings/technical log information this will give more helpful information especially attainable connection speed

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 12:33:53 GMT

Yes, I've seen that advice lots of times. If it is correct, then it indicates a pretty shoddy alorithm for detecting stability issues.

A router going offline every night around 11pm and remaining offline for 9 hours and often more can surely be recognised as different from an unstable line.

After 6 years without any issues, my line now seems to be unstable for as yet unknown reason(s) and the DSL connection is dropping sometimes every few minutes. This can go on for a couple of hours and then the connection will remain up for a day or days.

This recent change in the stability is why I started to investigate and found the lower download speed, but I don't know how long it has been like that and is why I started asking what is the 'potential' speed of Fibre 2 vs Fibre 1 under ideal conditions after the BT chat agent told me they were both the same !

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

imjolly — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 12:36:22 GMT

without you posting your hub stats as requested it is like trying to help you blindfolded

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 12:54:00 GMT

@imjolly here are screenshots of the logs and settings on the ASUS DSL-AC68U router. Although not the BT HH6, they should provide equivalent information.

DSL Information

DSL Line Stats

DSL Settings

At the time of the screen grabs, you will see that my DSL line has been up for over 17 hours since last line Down/Up occurred at approx 8pm last night.

I will be reverting to my BT HH6 this afternoon and will post an update and new hub stats some time tomorrow perhaps.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

imjolly — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 12:59:51 GMT

as you were able to get dslchecker results using phone number that suggests you are not yet on digital voice so can you try dialling 17070 option 2 on home phone and it should be dead silent

your stats show attainable speed of 67mb so there is a line problem switching off every night as already pointed out is not helping your connection

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

iniltous — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:12:45 GMT

Turning a router off a night and bad on in the morning won’t be interpreted as instability and cause DLM it intervene …repeated power cycles would , or as would issues on the copper pair .

As can be seen , your max attainable is 67Mb , your sync rate 48/49Mb so room for improvement, the target noise margin is 6dB or on some cabinets 3dB , your noise margin at 6.8dB.

Personally I would for a while relent on turning off the power at night ,and check if the noise margin improves, it’s possible that your line is banded because of previous instability, and occasionally it can take a while to be removed even when the instability has gone .

Finally , have you checked your line for noise ( dial 17070 quiet line option ) any noise , report it , you could ask for a OR visit , and ask the tech that visits that they get your profile reset , ( if the banding is sticky ) , and if reporting to BT , I would put the SH2 back on as your router isn’t supported , if there is a external problem getting the profile reset is pointless as the instability with simply cause DLM to intervene again , so if there are issues they need addressing

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

countrypaul — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:12:37 GMT

Not much point in the OP trying the quiet line test as he explained in the first post "I'm hearing disabled so can't make phone calls". Obviously, he might be able to get a relative/friend/neighbour to check for him but that an be difficult sometimes.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

iniltous — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:15:47 GMT

Oops , I tend not to read the entire thread so occasionally post something someone else already suggested or overlook salient points

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:25:24 GMT

@imjolly& @iniltous - I'm hearing disabled but my wife helped with the quiet line test (17070 then press 2). She said there was a low level steady hum (we have a cordless phone) but no pops or crackles.

I'll obviously need to power cycle when swapping over from my ASUS router to the BT HH6 but I'll keep the hub on 24/7 thereafter.

Incidentally, I've never had a BT engineer over my door in the 40 years I've been at this address, so I don't have a master socket but do have filters on the line to my hub and the line to my phone. The BT hub which was supplied in 2017 is labelled HomeHub 6, which I believe is the same as SmartHub but is not the latest SH2. I substituted the ASUS router to give me better control over my wifi and connected devices for visiting relatives.

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

imjolly — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:30:14 GMT

@ByJings

a dull hum is normal when using cordless phone so it suggests you have an external line problem and probably need to get engineer visit to sort it out you are as previously suggested in a banded profile due to the drops in connection and this will not correct itself unless you can get a stable connection for 7/10 days which at present seems unlikely hence openreach visit

when you get visit make sure openreach person resets the DLM and gets your speed back before he leaves

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:40:55 GMT

Many thanks to all for advice and suggestions.

Before I request an engineer, I think it wise to refit and use my BT HH6 for a few days to see if that fixes the line drops. If it does, that would suggest my ASUS router has developed a fault.

If the line dropping issue goes away with the BT HH6, I'd guess the DLM will still need to be reset to get my speed back but would an engineer visit still be needed for that ?

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

imjolly — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:53:01 GMT

if you put the HH6 in and line then is stable the DLM should after 7/10 stable release the banding and speed should increase toward attainable 67mb

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

ByJings — Sat, 07 Oct 2023 14:30:51 GMT

UPDATE

Reverted to my BT HH6 yesterday afternoon.

Initially it reported;

VDSL link Up: Down Rate=55953Kbps, Up Rate=15455Kbps, SNR Margin Down=6.10dB, SNR Margin Up=7.90dB

I ran the 'Broadband performance test' which reported a problem so I then ran the troubleshooting and this eventually opened a web page saying there was a fault on my broadband line 'outside the home' and an engineer visit has been booked for Wed 11th October.

I checked the hub stats after the tests and got the following;

VDSL link Up: Down Rate=35808Kbps, Up Rate=14999Kbps, SNR Margin Down=0.00dB, SNR Margin Up=6.00dB

I didn't like the drop in speed or the zero download SNR margin, so I clicked 'Restart the Smart Hub' and after the restart the stats were as follows;

VDSL link Up: Down Rate=27024Kbps, Up Rate=15159Kbps, SNR Margin Down=5.90dB, SNR Margin Up=6.00dB

Going from bad to worse.

At the moment, approx 22 hours later, the technical log is now showing;

Data rate: 15.00 kbps / 27.65 kbps

Maximum data rate: 15159 / 27024

Noise margin: 6.7 / 16

I have included below screen shots from yesterday afternoon showing the Status, Technical Log and Event Log (WAN) after the test and restart. I will leave things as they now are and keep the hub switched on and post a further update after the engineer visit or sooner if there are any dramatic changes.

HH6 Status

HH6 Technical Log

HH6 Event Log (WAN)

Re: Fibre 2 or not Fibre 2 ... that is the question

licquorice — Sat, 07 Oct 2023 14:41:07 GMT

Nothing is going to improve until the line fault is fixed.