This topic

False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Thu, 23 May 2024 10:32:16 GMT

My copper contract is ending, so I agreed a new Full Fibre with BT. Open Reach have been digging up the road outside, and other neighbours have had full fibre installation, so should be no problem.However.....1) BT saying that they were dealing with OpenReach to get a date - would not commit. 2) on 20th May they cut my existing internet off, without replacement 3) they said that they could not just get it back again - would take time - 2 weeks plus (why not just reverse what they did, in error?). 4) they sent me a mini hub. this is a lot slower, and has no cable contacts, so not suitable for my Hive, and causes problems with my ADT security 5) they then stated that OpenReach needed permission from the original housebuilder to instal Fibre The house was built mid 80s, I've been here since 1991, and there is no mortgage, and they have been digging up the road and installing. Additionally the original housebuilder no longer exists 6)they stated that the date for Fibre installation was now 20th August (sic) 2024 7) that they could not do anything to get OpenReach to look at (note : OpenReach is a wholly owned subsidiary of BT) 😎 they have made no offer of compensation for the problems.

Is this symptomatic of the way that BT is going?I will escalate (OfCom etc), unless BT can sort out and instal by the end of next week, and offers proper compensation.

In the meantime, be very very careful dealing with BT. I am likely to switch and publicise my problems. Twitter, Instagram, local press, Facebook etc etc

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

iniltous — Thu, 23 May 2024 10:56:21 GMT

To your points ,
1.This is true , any provider using Openreach will be dependent on Openreach timescales.
2.This is unfortunate and shouldn’t really happen , any delay on the FTTP order should delay the cessation of the copper pair based service .
3.Restoration of service lost in this way does take time , it’s not simply a case of undoing what was done by ‘flicking a switch’ , this complexity is no small part is the way Ofcom expects Openreach to deal with providers ( like BT ) something an vertically integrated company ( so the same company does network and customer like Virgin ) does have to contend with .
4.Not all providers would supply a temporary solution like this , so although it’s not perfect, you could be with a different provider on Openreach and not have any supplied connectivity at all .
5.This is abject nonsense , the representative that said this is making it up .
6.The only way this date will be accurate is if a road closure is required and the local authority have provided the date.
7. BT hold no more sway with Openreach than any other provider like Sky or Talk Talk , however OR are penalised for not hitting agreed dates so will not be hanging around they will be keen to get the work completed

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

NeilO — Thu, 23 May 2024 11:20:37 GMT

Hi @TimGlass I'm so sorry your upgrade to full fibre has gone so wrong. I'll send you a private message so you can get in touch with the moderation team and we'll be happy to look into your complaint.

Thanks

Neil

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Thu, 23 May 2024 12:28:45 GMT

Thanks, re the replies :
4. I could hotspot (to an extent) from my phone (Vodafone). If any other supplier had done this they'd be moving heaven and earth to get it sorted - BT aren't
5. I said as much to the BT rep ('Brett') but was repeatedly told it was OpenReach legal department and BT couldn't question it. My daughters are both Lawyers, and both have confirmed that this would be false (one daughter deals with items like this every day, inter alia) BT have said tat they will not get back to OpenReach as it's 'not worth it'
6. A road closure would not be required - the cable is all there (the road was dug up a few months ago) The cable would be from my Pavement, about 12 inches from my garden. I am not on a through road, but in a close. No closure would be required. The date of 20th August was given by ee in a text message on Monday 20th May at 1614 hrs - they even gave a timescale ('between 1300 and 1800')
For information City Fibre also installed cable, and I have a slot outside my house ready to take the cable straight to my house.
Additionally, after the full fibre order an OR rep attended and marked on the pavement where the cable would come from. The paint used is still out there, and a photo can be supplied if needed

7. see 6 above - the date looks to have been given to OR by ee/BT. Is this an OfCom issue?

It very much appears that I am being fobbed off - whether through incompetence or deliberately it's hard to tell.

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

garybs29 — Thu, 23 May 2024 12:32:00 GMT

On the August date, it's likely been set so far in the future to stop the order timing out & cancelling

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Thu, 23 May 2024 12:39:50 GMT

Whatit's more likely to do is to get the order cancelled and another supplier to be use, not BT

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

garybs29 — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:16:07 GMT

Ahh yes use a different provider & put yourself at the back of the OR queue again with the same issues. Quite frankly I'm shocked to see you're still here given your comments in November "When the deal is up I'll be looking to move"

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

imjolly — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:20:45 GMT

what expected installation date were you given when you placed your order? It is strange that you received a text message from EE with expected installation when order with BT. BT and EE are separate companies in the BT Group

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:43:22 GMT

'Same Issues'?

iniltous came back and explained that what BT had told me about access issues was 'abject nonsense'. Would the same issues be there? We have a box outside the house all ready to instal City Fibre, if there were a supplier we wish to go with who used that (Many suppliers round here use both, although in line with rules on this forum I won't name them)

'Looking to move'

Yes, I said that, but looking round the various deals, and bearing in mind my wife's views, we decided to give it a second chance, part of that being BT's reputation for service, allied with what we had been told by our neighbours about their experience of switching (same road, no problems). Unfortunate.

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:36:28 GMT

Agree it was strange. Looking back the earlier emails were from EE as well. I assumed (wrongly it seems) that I was dealing with BT. Certainly whenever I called about this issue I got through to BT, as I did when I placed an order. Again, when BT called me they always stated that they were BT. My assumption was that as they were one ultimate ownership (effectively) they worked together.

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

imjolly — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:42:24 GMT

@TimGlass

they are entirely separate companies in the BT Group and deal with their customers separately just as Plusnet id company in BT Group but have their on packages and T&C. It sounds like you have actually been moved to EE with your new order

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Thu, 23 May 2024 13:47:15 GMT

Thanks for explanation.

Wonder why the people I spoke to clearly identified themselves as BT, and were not at all complimentary about EE!

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

Anonymous — Fri, 24 May 2024 10:30:35 GMT

@iniltouswrote:

"7. BT hold no more sway with Openreach than any other provider like Sky or Talk Talk ,"

Just to add, this is an OFCOM regulatory / legal requirement - not BT or Openreach's "choice".

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

iniltous — Fri, 24 May 2024 11:40:42 GMT

If City Fibre have already installed their own toby box outside your address , then it’s conceivable that by doing so they have in effect blocked any other provider from installation of their own toby box , or the footpath is now so congested that getting any new infrastructure in the footpath is problematic.
My comment about ‘nonsense’ was simply in regard to being advised that the original developer still has some involvement, once the roads and footpaths are adopted by the local authority, Openreach have access rights under the NRSWA and obviously any work on your property just needs your agreement, hence referring you to a now defunct developer is ridiculous

As the BT moderator has offered to help , it’s probably wise to defer to them , however this may ultimately be the wrong place for commenting if EE are the provider and not BT .

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Fri, 24 May 2024 12:26:25 GMT

Thanks. Open Reach did all of their work prior to City Fibre, and their cables run one side of the road, Open Reach other. Anyway, rants over, so I'll just see what happens. As I said, I was always under the impression that it was BT I was dealing with - maybe I should have been more wary! Live and Learn....and it was BT who cut off my copper...C'est la vie...

(PS : after trying to get Full Fibre OR came out and left their paintwork on the pavement to show where it would go - markings still there)

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

ArtyVark — Fri, 24 May 2024 12:31:43 GMT

Sorry to hijack the thread but you have raised a valid point. Virgin put there cable in years ago (and made a mess of the pavements) City Fibre put their cable in this year (and made a mess but bit less) so if we ever get BT Full Fibre where on earth are Openreach going to put the cable ? 🤣 Meant to be laid by Dec '25.

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

iniltous — Fri, 24 May 2024 13:05:56 GMT

If Openreach had their FTTP in first ( but you never took advantage until now ) and City Fibre came along afterwards, then it’s odd that as the have access rights under PIA ( passive infrastructure access ) that CF didn’t use the newly provided Openreach infrastructure and went to the expense of building their own infrastructure…..if the existing OR infrastructure is on the opposite side of the road to you , then at a minimum a road crossing is needed , that is a considerable undertaking and obviously will require consultation with the local authority etc .

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

TimGlass — Fri, 24 May 2024 15:10:09 GMT

Not sure exactly what they've done, but City Fibre have put boxes outside every house, ready for hook up. I think they may actually have shared some of the culverts as well. The whole estate is now set up for fibre for every house. Any necessary road crossings have been done, put in place and tarmacked in.
PS : Some houses have boxes for City Fibre and Virgin - identified by the box wording. Boxes side by side. They actually look to have done a really good job (City Fibre and OpenReach)

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

NigelB72 — Fri, 24 May 2024 16:59:43 GMT

@ArtyVark our street is served by Virgin Media who've been in for many years, then CityFibre came along and ran their cables through without any digging and a few months after CityFibre, Openreach popped up and ran their cables through. Based on the no digging, I can only assume that CityFibre and Openreach used the ducting that was originally installed by Virgin Media.

When we were connected last year, an OR chap came to pull the cable through to our house and left it nicely outside for the internal installation chap to come and do his bit a few days later. The whole process was completed within 10 days of initial order to our ISP. Which was interesting because BT told me that OR had no appointments for 3-6 months 🤣

Re: False promises on setting up Full Fibre

iniltous — Fri, 24 May 2024 17:17:19 GMT

Openreach can’t use anyone else’s infrastructure , they are not allowed to use anyone else’s ducts , boxes etc , the only sharing agreement agreement called PIA is a one way deal , others can use Openreach , Openreach cannot use anyone else’s infrastructure.