This topic

BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 08:43:33 GMT

Hi all, I am hoping someone can offer some advice.

I will be moving into an apartment shortly and need to order my broadband. The BT broadband checker is only showing that I can order up to 300 Mbps but the other providers show up to 910 Mbps. Openreach also states that up to 1800 Mbps is available.

I am just wondering if BT is correct, or should I go with a provider that offers a faster speed. Is it possibly the case that Openreach and the other providers say that speed because the area is wired for it but that the apartment is limited due to it's setup, wrong fibre cable etc?

I can see that there are none of the grey boxes on the outside of the building, so it would seem that there must be some central point internally and all of the apartments cabled up via cables inside. Would this make it impossible to get the higher speeds and BT could be advertising what the apartments were cabled up for when they were built in 2019? or are the cables fine and a box just needs updating somewhere in the building?

Thank you in advance for any thoughts

Kind regards

Hapless

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

naylor2006 — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:08:15 GMT

Do you mean to say that this: Fibre Checker (openreach.com) shows FTTP 1800Mbps

and

this: BT Broadband (btwholesale.com) shows something else?

What does this: Broadband | Home Broadband & Line Rental | BT show you when you enter your address?

Are you sure you havent scrolled down to see the other products available? I really hate asking this but if you can get 300Mbps I dont see why you cant get 900Mbps with BT because both are FTTP products.

Of course if there is something unique to the way in which it is all provided to your block then I could just be wrong, this is always the part where I worry that @iniltous will show up and make me look stupid with pure facts!

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:32:18 GMT

Hi, thank you for coming back to me with those links, they have more info,

so, Fibre checker at Openreach shows 1800,

BT wholesale is showing max download as 330,

BT Broadband only shows up to 300,

Vodafone, Sky, Plusnet etc show 900.

I was really hoping I could get 900, I have never been able to get really good internet where I have lived. I am thinking that if I order with a different provider, the engineer will visit and just jay it isn't available 😞

Regards

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

naylor2006 — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:36:23 GMT

Can you post the output from the BT Wholesale Checker here but obscure the address at the top?

Plusnet should be using the same backbone as BT so if they are showing more thats odd. Sky, Vodafone and TalkTalk have different backhaul I think so could offer different products.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:42:25 GMT

Thank you for your time on this, it says...

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install ProcessWBC FTTP

Up to 330

Up to 50

Available

KCI2 Assure

Other Offerings Availability DateVDSL Multicast

Available

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Multi Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

ONT exists with active service. A spare port may be available or a single port ONT may be swappable to a multiport ONT. A new ONT may be ordered.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules. CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

iniltous — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:53:08 GMT

@naylor2006 😂

There was a period where ECI headends and ECI ONT’s , ( this was a very early generation of kit ) , was only capable of 330Mb , but that would affect all ISPs ,and it not going to be the issue here .

Seemingly you can get a situation where BT ( and others that use the same BTw backhaul , Plusnet and EE ) and temporarily restricted to 330Mb while the existing backhaul capacity is upgraded, basically if they initially offered 900/1800Mb the backhaul potentially is ‘stretched’ and causes everyone a poor experience, ( connecting speed fine , throughput not so much ) this is usually a temporary thing , and the full range of speeds will become available once capacity is added , other ISP that offer faster speeds from the get go may be using a different backhaul provider to BT/PN/EE or they may not have the same attitude towards loading customers into a backhaul that’s not really ready for an influx of ‘new’ bandwidth hungry customers.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:46:20 GMT

Just checked Plusnet again and it shows 900.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

naylor2006 — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:48:46 GMT

Yeah which is odd that Plusnet apparently are offering the 900 product as I thought they were using the same backhaul as BT.

As far as I know Vodafone and Sky dont, I wouldnt recommend Vodafone though, there Retail Customer Service is worse than Virgins....they are often the cheapest but its for a reason.

Anyway, you answered the question I knew you would.

The wholesale information posted shows there is a restriction, so the OP will just need to wait it out for BT?

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:49:20 GMT

Thank you for joining the conversation 🙂

Does this mean that it is likely that I will be able to order the 900 at some time without the building needing to be rewired?

Sorry if I am asking a silly question, I am new to this but it is fascinating.

I wasn't sure if the cable could be of a lower specification and would need to be replaced, which would be difficult.

Regards

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

iniltous — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:57:18 GMT

Just seen the extra posts ,

ONT exists with active service. A spare port may be available or a single port ONT may be swappable to a multiport ONT. A new ONT may be ordered.

The existing ONT may be ECI , so my assertion that it’s not going to be the ECI issue may be wrong , although someone would have to be extremely unlucky to be affected by this ( it’s tiny numbers in the scheme of things ) .
AFAIK, all ECI headends are now replaced but a historic ‘data’ problem, because the address was provided with a matching ECI ONT ( years ago when FTTP was provided ) restricts the speed on offer , however this should affect all ISPs , as the limiting factor is the ECI ONT itself it can only deliver 330Mb , the ‘fix’ is pretty easy though ( although easier said than done ) that is to swap the ECI ONT out to one capable of better speed.

I suppose, if access to the address is available, check the manufacturer of the existing ONT .

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:07:26 GMT

Thank you both for being so helpful,

I have nowhere near the understanding that you do, but if I am understanding it correctly, it is either an issue with waiting for BT to sort capacity out or an updated box required (my crude name for it but is it that grey box attached to peoples walls?). In which case there may be a solution at some point which may be time consuming but not too difficult, if access to where they are in the building is found (which the other providers would also need to do in any case). Am I in the right ballpark?

My concern is mainly that I don't think the cabling, internally within the building, to all the flats could easily be replaced, but it would be great if this was not necessary.

I will not be moving in for a month or so.

Thanks again

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

iniltous — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:12:24 GMT

The box that may need replacement is the internal ONT , not the external CSP block , the ONT is the powered ‘modem’ type device that your router connects to , the CSP is the point where an external grade optical cable is ‘spliced’ to an internal optical cable that runs to the ONT .
FYI , MDU ( flats, apartments etc ) can have a different method of installation, especially if they are ‘block wired’ so all units pre fitted with FTTP before any order for service is made , so CSP etc may not exist or may be an internal type CSP ( so not the ubiquitous grey plastic block ) , and as the installation is a few years old , the chances are , the method used in 2019 isn’t what’s used in 2024 .

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

naylor2006 — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:16:12 GMT

The grey boxes outside are usually CSP (customer splice points), this is where the external fibre enters the property, usually the other side of this grey box inside will be an ONT (Optical Network Terminal), although the ONT can be fitted somewhere else but for arguments sake most customers do have it just on the inside wall behind/infront of the CSP.

In a block of flats I would still assume that each flat/address will have its own CPS and ONT so internal cabling is not the reason for speed limitation, its not like the flats are sharing an internal network like perhaps a halls of residence block might. It doesnt rule out that there might be some other internal splicing but each address should still be able to pull the full speed.

Personally I think a new ONT may need to be fitted, when ive moved providers in the past, each time a new ONT was installed, it might be the ONT there is old.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:26:36 GMT

Again, my apologies for knowing too little,

Does that mean that the 900 speed is a likely possibility, it will just take some units updating? It sound like apartment blocks could be a bit of an issue, and may be stuck with the tech at the time they were built, though i hope not.

I've been stuck on 60 Mbps for many years, and do like technology and such. I have recently become interested in the advances in cloud gaming, but a good speedy internet connection is better. I get some good results now but it can be a bit jumpy.

I know 300 is a good improvement but want more 🙂

p.s my concern over the cabling is because I had read that virgin media was attaining better speeds using newer types of cabling and thought this may be the same here, as well as the other equipment.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

iniltous — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:37:15 GMT

Optical fibre is a passive medium, there are fibres that were provided ( mainly for business 30 years ago ) that originally had an 8Mb service ( but that’s when dial up 33Kb modems were for the domestic market ) but these fibres don’t need replacement they are the ‘same’ as fibres made today and capable of astonishing speed , it’s the electronics hanging on the end of the passive network that has improved, not the fibre itself.
As stated , this 330Mb ‘limit’ may simply disappear, or it could be the address is hampered by ECI equipment fitted within the flat , but changing an ECI ONT to a Nokia , or Adtran ONT is not a difficult engineering task , how individual ISP handle a requirement to do this change may vary , but it may not be necessary anyway .

The cabling within the MDU is not going to need replacement , its good for speeds in excess of 900/1800Mb , or 10Gb for that matter , and if the electronics improves over time and 100’s of Gb becomes available the ‘fibre’ will still be fine .

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

Carlusha — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:46:49 GMT

@HaplessUser - I note this has not been mentioned yet but have you asked any of the other occupants what sort of connection they have?

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:53:17 GMT

Thank you, that is really helpful and gives me hope that it is something that can easily be resolved.

Sounds like it may be something that gets fixed naturally or that a new internal unit to the flat is required. Not sure about the grey box that is on the outside of people's houses, these must be somewhere within the building, if anything needs to be done on them.

Thank you so much for your time

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

HaplessUser — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:55:04 GMT

I am buying the flat and viewed it twice. I haven't seen the other people who live in it but the current owner could only tell me that he gets full fibre, he doesn't need 900 so hasn't looked into upgrading to this from a fairly slow speed.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

iniltous — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 10:57:20 GMT

As stated MDU don’t use the same build criteria as regular housing , so there probably won’t be any ‘grey plastic CSPs’ anywhere , they are used for houses , not really for apartments.

Re: BT shows different available speeds to other providers/Openreach and unsure what to order.

naylor2006 — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 11:01:40 GMT

@HaplessUser said:
I am buying the flat and viewed it twice. I haven't seen the other people who live in it but the current owner could only tell me that he gets full fibre, he doesn't need 900 so hasn't looked into upgrading to this from a fairly slow speed.

Im not sure I could buy a property off someone who said they dont need 900Mbps......i'd look for somewhere else to live, you cannot trust these sellers. 🙂