This topic

Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 20:30:52 GMT

Hi one and all, here we go,

we were disconnected from BT broadband (using original 1964 wire into house) on the 28th of August 2024, no warning, no phone call and no email (spam folders were checked). We are still waiting to be reconnected.

we have been on the phone numerous times speaking to staff from various call centres around the country offering there apologies at every moment (this does not help now and we don’t want to hear it anymore) and telling us they know what the problem is and it will be fixed by the end of the week, we’ll guess what………

recently we have been escalated to the highest level of help which is “executive complaints “ this is a singular person of contact with a dedicated phone number in that department, and currently we get a phone call or voicemail every 3 days telling us the same thing as last time, with no further progress (see below)

History of the issue:-

earlier in the year May when sorting out our current package by removing the BT sport we were offered BT full fibre connection , with a guaranteed promise of a 14 day cooling of period, so we accepted.

we had a open reach cable installation in our street the next day at a neighbours property , so I check with the install team about our solid concrete drive and council owned tarmacadam hard standing outside our property and it was a definite No. We don’t even have telegraph polls either in the street, I was informed that I would have to put the cable conduit under my drive myself.

so armed with the info and less than 24 hours into the 14 day cooling of period we asked for the order to be stopped, and were told it was not problem everything will be ok don’t worry.

we had 3 week’s following this of emails saying we would get a site visit and bags in the post to send equipment back, after numerous phone calls explaining it had been had stopped , finally the emails and text stopped and we were told everything was ok…………

I believe during the process in May someone or something started a chain of events that led to us loosing our broadband on the 28th of August. That’s my guess.

We have been told numerous times there is a “incorrect cease” in place and Wholesale and open reach need to sort this out individually in the correct order so we can be reconnected

We have been told that “executive complaints” can send emails or ring wholesale and open reach but we can’t, and that “executive complaints “ have to wait on hold when dealing with wholesale and open reach.

we have been told that according to “executive complaints “ we are still being billed

we received an EE mini hub after 3 weeks, please do not tell me this is a good temporary solution

we want to know how this is going to be resolved, what’s the process,what does a human within this system need to do to resolve this, somebody please explain……….

and why has it taken this long……..

what sort of queue are we in ……….

and why can I not contact wholesale or openreach and our “executive complaints “ person has as much clout in this as we do …………..

ps the phone doesn’t work either, and I thank you if you made it this far and if you are able to shed some light on the correct fix or procedure to get us back to the 27th of August 2024

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

imjolly — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 20:52:04 GMT

As you are now being handles by ELC there nothing anyone else can do to help with your complaint as at highest level. You cannot contact openreach or wholesale as you are not one of their customers. You are a BT RETAIL customer

Have you been given a reason why you were cut off?

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 21:08:36 GMT

Hi thank you for your reply,

no reason given for being cut off

i know I can’t contact the 2 groups of people who currently are trying to fix it, and that is my biggest issue , they are to all sense and purpose untouchable , yet they have probably caused the issue and now have to fix it, and my conduit to them ELC also seems to have as much clout as me.

what I would like someone to do is explain the work involved in fixing this, If anything is broken there is usually a fix and someone knows how to fix it, currently I am not being told the plan to fix it and what it involves, as an example is there 1 person in an office somewhere in the uk working through a list from all the broadband suppliers and they fix the fault mechanically or with software each complaint at a time , can somebody explain to me the process to fix this please as I am only a bill paying customer and I can’t get any answers…………..

many thanks

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 07:33:03 GMT

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

As you haven’t been told what the problem is , then ( certainly on this forum ) no other BT customer can tell you what the fix is , or what work is required etc , however we can speculate how you got to where you are .
I suspect you were misinformed by the people working on a neighbour property ( especially the part about you having to do the work to provide a duct to your property ) , and although a cancellation during the cooling off period shouldn’t affect you previous service, if it does , it’s extremely difficult to get that old ‘copper pair’ service restored as the address has FTTP available and the back end systems effectively won’t allow a copper pair service to be ordered , hence this situation .

Enter your address in the link provided, and post the details of the survey , it will look like this , but not necessarily identical, it’s very unlikely to be identical.

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

I suspect your address will be ‘partial DIG ‘ , so no duct exists, this is where ( imho ) the people you spoke to were wrong is , if you have the authority to grant OR permission to dig ( excavate ) in the your garden so you are the owner , Openreach already have authority to dig in the public footpath, so getting a duct , irrespective of the surface , to your address is Openreach’s job not yours, there are no problems with concrete or tarmac or any surface provided permission is given .

Obviously some times this can’t proceed, the occupant may only renting so can’t give permission, or the owner occupiers did not realise that excavation is needed and don’t want their garden/driveway or whatever disturbed, if the order is cancelled at this point , normally that’s fine , no issues , unfortunately if the cancellation is not done correctly, both the FTTP isn’t installed but the copper service is still withdrawn as if the FTTP was provided, and it’s extremely difficult to get the copper based service back on.

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:00:59 GMT

So, everyday is a school day

i was not aware that this forum is BT customers only I was hoping there were some “staff” on here, I am however very grateful for everyone one’s help so far.

the digging up and who should do what and not do , I’m not getting into at this stage as I was categorically told they were not digging up my drive, and all I have seen so far is cables put in very shallow trenches through gardens (plants,soil or grass).which we can’t do as it’s all solid out the front.

I have attached a screen shot from the checker that was kindly suggested to use, I bow to your greater knowledge if you can convert this to lay man’s speak for me in my quest to get to the bottom of this problem

many thanks

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:16:40 GMT

OK , so good and bad , good in that your survey note states ‘built to the curtilage hard’ , this is where Openreach ( much like the cable industry did 30 years ago ) build a ducted network to the edge of the property, so in the footpath on the boundary of ( usually ) the front garden , is a ‘Toby box’ , from here when service is ordered an excavation from the toby box to the house wall , the toby box is placed to give the easiest dig ( so opposite a lawned area is best ) but obviously in some cases the entire front on a property may be concrete, paving , or other ‘hard’ surfaces, and other buried services may also mean the optimal location for the toby box isn’t available….in some respects that’s immaterial, from the toby box a duct is provided to the house wall ….have you seen the toby box in front of your property ? ( it will have recently been provided )

Obviously , some will order FTTP , and then refuse the excavation when they realise their expensive ‘driveway’ will be interfered with , but assuming permission is granted by the homeowner hard surfaces are not an issue , certainly not a reason not to proceed from Openreach point of view , obviously the householder decides if they are happy for an excavation to take place , what won’t happen ( for example ) is if a householder says ‘I want the entire driveway replaced, I don’t want a visible scar in the surface’ , that is reason for Openreach to walk away , they won’t replace a full drive , some surfaces will show a scar after the work is done .

Did you actually order FTTP ? , if you did who ‘decided’ that it wouldn’t proceed , you said it was a when a neighbour was getting FTTP that you were told FTTP would be an issue for you , your neighbours order cannot affect you , as stated unfortunately if FTTP is ordered and then the order is ‘cancelled’ by the consumer, occasionally the wrong buttons are pressed and the copper pair service is ceased anyway , this seems the most likely situation you are in .

You could ( unless you are not going to allow excavation in your ‘land’ ) reorder FTTP , but if the excavation is absolutely not going to be considered, then as stated , unfortunately getting the ‘old connection’ back up and running hits snags , if the ELC ( executive level complaints ) are involved that as high as you can get , the actual nuts and bolts of the process ( overriding systems that say FTTP must be used ) won’t be known by forum members and it isn’t necessary for you to know what they do , as long as they do it .

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:28:29 GMT

thanks for your reply again, everyday is a school day,

1.I know where the old and new cables in the pavement are, my old brown cable and the new fibre cable are both in the under the original GPO cover of a rectangular recess. When the new cable was being pulled through into the recess I spoke to that team to understand what was happening. No modern Toby box I’m afraid and brown cable still going into our house

2. I understand about the hard standing and I’m not having a scar, trust me my OCD will not deal with it, if it ever happens I will prep the cable runs, but no work physically was started.

3. What is FTTP ?

4. all I saw regarding the neighbour (4 houses away with garden in front) was the installation team at work with a 6 inch trench through through the garden up to external wall, I asked them when finished to knock at my door and give me there thoughts on my hard surfaces and in there opinion it was a flat no we won’t be digging anything up.

5. We will not be ordering new service. We want are old one reconnected

6. I know the ELC is as high as it gets for a normal human who pays his bills, but I’m afraid I wish to know what’s involved in restoring our connection, it will be good for my knowledge base, and when we speak to our ELC we can get a feel for there understanding, we can’t be asking for the keys to the castle surely , plus it may appease us slightly.

7. Did the chart throw up any issues ?

I am truly grateful for your time and help, and please understand my utter frustration with this is firmly laid at the door of BT, and we are being treated appallingly, in 6 weeks nothing has happened and I can’t believe it’s actually this difficult to “throw a couple of switches”

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 11:49:15 GMT

Various points don’t quite make sense , FTTP ( fibre to the premises ) is ‘full fibre’ , something you apparently ordered in May , you then changed your mind for whatever reason ( possibly including being mislead about who excavates the hard standing ) , TBH , if you cancelled in May , it’s not likely to be the reason you lost service in August, however some points are pertinent.
Once FTTP is available, it becomes the default network, so ( for arguments sake ) if you moved out and a new occupant moved in , they would have no choice but to take FTTP , copper is no longer available, your situation is slightly different in that you are not a new customer, but because, for whatever reason your copper service is now ceased , any new order for you , much like if you were a new occupant is ‘forced’ down the FTTP route that you presumably won’t accept.

Obviously somewhere, at a senior level , the capability to override the system that says this address has access to FTTP ( full fibre ) and that network has to be used , needs to be overridden, you may this your copper service is still available, but if it were ceased , then as stated every ordinary avenue will say this customer has to be full fibre.
ELC , executive level complaints, if anyone has the authority to override the normal system, it will e them , what you maybe don’t appreciate, is that you are in effect a new customer, your old account and service isn’t faulty, it was ceased , so it’s not a repair you need but a new service, and I presume this is where the problem is , the automated processes are forcing FTTP to be used , how your copper service was ceased is a mystery as if it were linked to your cancelled full fibre order , then I doubt it would be 3 months after you cancelled your FTTP order .
As stated , it depends on what it is you actually want to know , how the error was made and by who , or your focus is on restoring your copper service

Your assertion that all that is needed is to throw a few switches is way off the mark , it doesn’t work like that.

As far as the ‘chart’ , I’ve explained that it shows ‘built to the curtilage’ and what that means , you state you live in a flat , presumably it’s not an apartment complex as ‘built to the curtilage’ isn’t an appropriate survey return of apartments complexes , it’s possible it’s used if a house was converted to ‘flats’ , depending on how they are situated.

If your flat has a unconventional name , ‘top floor flat’ , ‘second floor’ , ‘ground floor’ , flat 1A , that sort of thing , then the reason your copper service was ceased in error may be that someone misidentified your flat as theirs and that’s why the copper service was removed

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 14:30:05 GMT

Hi, some very good information there much appreciated,

the word cease is a one used by our ELC in every conversation and trying to get it sorted, so with your information I am getting a better understanding of our issue, thank you

not sure where I’ve implied we live in a flat, as we don’t. We live in a bungalow of singular detached layout with hard standing out the front, the only “garden” is behind the property.

the “throw a few switches” was my bluffers term, as mentioned before I am interested in how this is actually going to be resolved, how, by whome and what is the time frame, as we are being told by our ELC that they have seen “these can take months”………….

i currently have nothing to loose in learning about the systems as I have plenty of time on my hand, and I may even go to the “old exchange” building in town were the Openreach vans park and see if they can shed some light or knowledge my way,

once again I genuinely thank you for your time in my quest to resolve this issue

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 14:58:18 GMT

Shows the error of me simply scanning text instead of reading previous posts carefully , you said that Openreach said ( when discussing excavation through concrete ) it’s ‘ a flat no ‘ when asking about excavation ( and that is wrong , but it is where the word flat came in ) .

In simple terms , you don’t have any current service, it was ceased , so it’s not a fault , a fault is when a valid service is not working , a fault can be repaired, a ceased service no longer exists , you can’t repair something that doesn’t exist anymore, and that’s why it proving troublesome , you need copper pair service re-provided ( rather than repaired ) , how and why it was ceased isn’t known , but not likely to be associated with your full fibre order as that was cancelled by you 3 months before .

As I indicated, once your service was ceased it no longer exists in BT systems ( to all intent and purpose you are an ex customer ) so to get you connected again , needs you to be re provided ( in the same way as if you were a new customer ) and that’s were the ‘system’ insists you must use FTTP as copper isn’t available in your area for new s , but because you don’t want FTTP , hence the problem .

As stated several times now , if it’s possible to re provide a copper service when the ‘system’ says you have to take full fibre , it’s the ELC people, if they can’t circumvent the system forcing FTTP , then no one can .

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

chrisjp — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 16:45:19 GMT

But there's another issue: the OP does actually want FTTP, he only cancelled it because Openreach said no way would they dig a trench in his front concreted yard.
So, if BT cannot provide a new copper service for policy reasons, surely they are obliged to work with Openreach to get the trench dug and FTTP installed?
Otherwise, how would they service a new customer who moved into the OP's house?

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 18:50:24 GMT

That’s where the story makes little sense , the OP orders FTTP , speaks to someone who ( incorrectly ) said a concrete driveway wouldn’t be excavated, so the OP unilaterally decided to cancelled their order .

Anyone ordering FTTP and then deciding that they won’t allow excavation ( when its necessary to provide FTTP ) effectively self excludes themselves, in the OP case , they have subsequently stated they could not allow excavation anyway , OR never cancelled anything .

Openreach never said ‘No’ , someone in the street working for OR stated that , and they were wrong , if the OP had allowed their order to proceed, then the fist stage visit would have explained what was required, if that proposal was unacceptable, that’s the consumers choice to reject it , the ISP and Openreach don’t have to do anything else , a proposition was made , the consumer rejected it , that’s the end of the story a different solution doesn’t need to be offered .

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 19:04:00 GMT

again thank you for the reply’s,

so we are clear and I have had at every stage of speaking to BT up to and including our ELC checked that it shows on our records that we cancelled the switch to the new cable in under 24 hours into the cooling of period of 14days, so the rights and wrongs of one person from Openreach installation team allegedly not knowing his job correctly are I believe not the main cause of the disconnection of our broadband, no site visit was arranged and non took place as we cancelled it in the time frame mentioned above, and we were categorically told that everything would remain the same.
many thanks

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 19:40:14 GMT

I had previously stated my belief that the cancelled FTTP order and the subsequent loss of copper were probably not linked , too much time elapsed between the two ( so the excavation question and dubious advice are probably moot ) , however it would seem that at some point a cease order was raised for the copper service and as that is complete, it’s a case of copper service being restored ( not repaired ) by alchemy, as the standard process won’t allow it , or reconsidering the FTTP installation, the OP favours the copper restoration, and that is not easy to accomplish, but hopefully the ELC staff will succeed.

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

SaturnVBoy — Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:39:32 GMT

Hi one and all,

we now have broadband again,

from our end all I can tell you is, this has taken 8 weeks to resolve, we didn’t do anything wrong in the beginning , no new infrastructure was required outside or inside our property and no new pieces of kit within our property was needed to resolve this.

here are some takeaways as a paying customer for any other paying customers having to join a forum to try and find some answers as to how it will go in the same scenario:-

so you have to wait 8 weeks to be turned back on, which is staggering !

you can only speak to your ISP , not the 2 other companies of wholesale and openreach , who actually hold all the cards, and your ISP has no leverage over them , these two companies are genuinely bulletproof from any paying customers !

you have to go through many rounds of phone calls with your ISP who have different levels of competence and promises before reaching the ELC person, and this is as far as you can get , that’s if you can be a stubborn person like myself and not give up with the ringing up. Then you wait as they have to wait in line as mentioned above.

yes we have had are monthly bills credited during this, but only once the ELC got involved, and we have had 2 months credit as compensation.

as an example of time spent on this with our own efforts in phoning up, my wife and I rang up on our individual mobile phones to join the queue, one of us got through after 20 minutes and one after 30 minutes, after explaining the issue and getting two different answers I actually spoke to both call centre technicians and told them to talk to each over our loudspeakers on both our mobile phones held an 1 inch apart whilst my wife and I listened in…………………..

I thank anyone that has read my posts

I thank anyone that has replied to my posts (I have gained some knowledge)

I wish anyone that has the same issue the best of luck and hope you have a modicum of patience, because you are going to need it

SaturnVBoy

Re: Broadband Disconnected End of August Still Not Reconnected

iniltous — Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:57:56 GMT

Who do you think is responsible for BT Group being run in this way , a Consumer division, a wholesale division and a network division, and not being able to ‘speak’ to each other in the way that other vertically integrated companies can , what is it that stops Openreach speaking directly to consumers , and requires that consumers can only ever speak to their provider , that only the provider can speak to the consumer, and that the divisions within BT Group cannot simply pick up the phone and speak to each other …….its OFCOM , the regulator …….no other company would chose to be set up this way , and BT didn’t choose it either , it was enforced .