This topic

Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Sat, 07 May 2022 12:41:43 GMT

I am treasurer of an Art group of 150+ members. When we email lots of members we use Mailchimp. Occasionally we will email a small group of members and we do this using a Gmail account. We use .bcc to hide email addresses from the recipients - it's a privacy safeguard.

Yesterday I emailed 17 members using the .bcc method. Three of the email addresses were BTinternet addresses. For all three I received the following error...

554 Message rejected on 2022/05/06 14:43:04 BST, policy (3.2.1.1) ID (623AE28F08DC0D9C) - Your message looks like SPAM or has been reported as SPAM

The emails were not delivered and did not appear in the recipients SPAM folders.

I have two questions...

1. Given that other users on Gmail, TalkTalk, iCloud, Yahoo, Hotmail, Rocketmail, Tiscali, AOL and Virginmedia all received the email without problem, why did BTinternet decide this was SPAM?

2. Having decided it was SPAM, why on earth did the system not put the emails into the recipients spam folder.

I actually appreciate getting an email back to tell me it has been flagged as spam - but to not deliver it to the recipient's SPAM folder I find quite bizarre!

Am I missing something here? Is this a good Idea? - and if it is, why are BTinternet the only email providers (that I know of) implementing this?

RzzB

Re: Emails rejected as spam

gg30340 — Sat, 07 May 2022 12:45:53 GMT

See link

BT Email - best practices for postmasters and senders of email | BT Help

Re: Emails rejected as spam

licquorice — Sat, 07 May 2022 14:52:15 GMT

@RzzB wrote:

1. Given that other users on Gmail, TalkTalk, iCloud, Yahoo, Hotmail, Rocketmail, Tiscali, AOL and Virginmedia all received the email without problem, why did BTinternet decide this was SPAM?

Every ISP has its own spam filtering algorithms, BT's appears to be more aggressive than most

2. Having decided it was SPAM, why on earth did the system not put the emails into the recipients spam folder.

If ISPs didn't delete spam at source, recipients spam folders would be overwhelmed by thousands of spam mails daily. Only mail that the algorithm determines is possibly spam rather than definitely spam is delivered to the spam folder. There was obviously something about your mailshot that led the algorithm to believe it was definitely spam.

I actually appreciate getting an email back to tell me it has been flagged as spam - but to not deliver it to the recipient's SPAM folder I find quite bizarre!

See above

Am I missing something here? Is this a good Idea? - and if it is, why are BTinternet the only email providers (that I know of) implementing this?

As said above, the BT mail spam filtering is notoriously aggressive.

RzzB

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:10:00 GMT

Hi gg30340,

Thank you for your response.

So, it seem that I as the sender are doing something wrong. I would really like to get to the bottom of this.

I have looked closely at the "BT Email - best practices for postmasters and senders of email" you have pointed me at...

The first paragraph says - "Please note: The advice you’ll find here is not intended for BT’s consumer customers but for senders of bulk emails to BT customers. If you are a BT business customer sending bulk emails, you should follow this advice."

I wonder if this document is actually aimed at me. Firstly I am not sending Bulk email to BT customers. This is one simple email to three of your customers to remind them of a life drawing session on Sunday. Is that classified as Bulk email? Secondly - I am not a BT business customer.

Anyway I will continue to see if there is something I can see that I'm doing wrong.

The next paragraphs mention DMARC and talk about Third party senders being compliant. Well, in this instance I am not using a Third party sender I'm using Gmail - is Gmail compliant with DMARC?

The next paragraph "We have improved security..." gives no help.

The next paragraph "Just so you know, we don't support..." - ohh a White list that would be a good idea... Ahh..

Now we get to the meat... "Here's what to do so your emails aren't mistaken as spam."

1. Use a consistent and meaningful 'From' header address
Well - that's my Gmail address - I don't ever fiddle with that

2. Make sure the domain you send from has a Sender Policy Framework (SPF) record for the IP address you'll be sending from. An SPF record allows domain owners to publish a list of IP addresses that are authorised to send email on their behalf. The aim is to reduce the amount of spam by making it harder for malicious senders to disguise their identity.
Hmm - I don't understand this - I'm just a simple end user. However - I did click on the link and found that the link is broken. It says "This Page has been taken down permanently" with some smiling telephone operators in the background. Nice touch. I started going down all sorts of rabbit holes after Googling - is this really something I need to fix?

3. Make sure the IP address you send from is a static IP and not a dynamically assigned IP address
Hmm - This is coming from my Home computer - Do people normally have fixed IP addresses on their home computers? Are all people with dynamic addresses doomed to failure?

4. Have separate IPs and streams depending on your email content type. Shared email services can have multiple domains using one IP to send email. If the same IPs are sending unsolicited commercial email along with your valid email, this can affect your reputation
What? I have not the slightest idea of what this means. Anyway - this isn't commercial email so I am assuming this is not my problem.

5. Make sure there is a correct PTR (reverse DNS entry) for your IP address. Reverse DNS is a method of resolving an IP address into a domain name, just as the domain name system (DNS) resolves domain names into associated IP addresses. If a spammer uses an invalid IP address that doesn't match the domain name, a reverse DNS look up program will try to match this to an IP address. If no valid name is found to match the IP address, the server blocks that message.
What? I have not the slightest idea of what this means. To me this is just a jumble of words and letters. Is this something I need to really get to grips with? Beginning to lose the will to live. BTW - the link in this paragraph takes me to the smiling telephone operators:-(

6. Sign all your email using DKIM. This protects recipients against spoofing and phishing. If you don't have a DKIM entry in your DNS or don't sign your email with DKIM we're more likely to consider it spam.
I don't think this applies to me - I'm just using a simple gmail account. - Please correct me if I am wrong.

7. Check your email service has a good reputation
By "email service" - does that mean Gmail? How do I check this?

8. Check your email sending service hasn't been blacklisted
Ahh - perhaps that's it - Google has been blacklisted!

9. Don't send all your emails at once: split your mailing activity throughout the day
Hmm... 17 emails... I don't think this is my problem - or is it?

Then it talks about servers - I don't think that applies to me.

The next section is entitled "Check the content of your email"

1. Make sure your emails can be read if images are blocked
I have no images.

2. Make sure you link to domains, never IP addresses
I have one link in the email to a Google document - is that not allowed?

3.Use standard ports
Eh? What's a port?

4. Don't use HTML forms in your emails
No HTML in the email

5. Don't use JavaScript or embed objects (like Flash or ActiveX)
No Javascript Flash or ActiveX

6. Always use a static 'From' address as this helps recipients who have set up filters to route emails to a specific folder
I don't touch the from address - ever.

Then we move on to the final section....

Managing your Mailing List.
This isn't a mailing list - I don't think there is anything helpful in this section.

In More help is recommends looking at "Messaging Anti-Abuse Working Group's best practices and guidelines"
That could take a month to review! The good news is - the link actually works.

I would be interested to know which bits of the above I should look more closely at to fix whatever it is I'm doing wrong. Thank you again for your help.

Roy

Re: Emails rejected as spam

licquorice — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:25:58 GMT

Virtually all of that is irrelevant if you are sending via Gmail.

The possible causes could be the Google link or the fact you are sending 17 mails via Bcc or it could just be that it is a sunny day!!!

To be perfectly honest, I would persuade the BTinternet recipients to create Gmail addresses.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

gg30340 — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:26:58 GMT

I was not suggesting that you were/are doing anything wrong when you send the group emails.

I posted the link more as a "For Information" for things that you should check rather than aa a fix however it does include the BT postmasters email address who you should consider contacting as there may be something that he/she can do to assist you in resolving the problem.

I would also suggest that you contact the recipients or rather non recipients, if using email do it one at a time which they will hopefully receive, and ask them to add your email address to their "Safe Sender" list which can be found in their email settings which are found by logging onto their email account and clicking on their username at the top right then going to "Mail".

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:42:26 GMT

Thank you licquorice,

Yes - I think it was mostly irrelevant...

Interestingly there is no mention of the use of .bcc in that document.

Does BTinternet know how many people were on the original .bcc list, or indeed that .bcc was used? I can't imagine why 17 would ring alarm bells - I would not be much of a spammer with only 17 targets!

And why only the three BTinternet users?

Gmail, TalkTalk, iCloud, Yahoo, Hotmail, Rocketmail, Tiscali, AOL and Virginmedia users all received the email without problem.

Funnily enough I was a BTinternet user years ago - lots of years - and I have vague recollections of having this sort of problem then - or was that with newsgroups! Whatever...

Anyway - I think your advice re Gmail is very sound!

Many thanks,
Roy

Re: Emails rejected as spam

licquorice — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:47:45 GMT

Adding your address to the recipients 'Safe senders' list as @gg30340 has suggested may help.

It is also worth getting the recipients to check that either your Gmail address or the whole Gmail domain hasn't been added to their blocked senders list. For have been a few cases of the whole Gmail domain being blocked inadvertently by users.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Sat, 07 May 2022 15:53:03 GMT

Yes indeed that was a lot information. I imagine the document is owned by BT. I think it was really aimed at postmasters and admins. Not the general public. They really ought to fix things like the broken links - give a very sloppy impression.

Also they really should do a similar document for the general, non technical, home user. Perhaps there is one somewhere?

Your suggestion about sending the emails one at a time would indeed work. Probably.

But then so would BTinternet fixing problem - a much better idea. Gmail, TalkTalk, iCloud, Yahoo, Hotmail, Rocketmail, Tiscali, AOL and Virginmedia don't appear to have this problem

I will indeed send this on to the postmaster - if I get anywhere I will post back here.

Thanks for your hep,

Roy

Re: Emails rejected as spam

Trebian — Thu, 12 May 2022 15:56:19 GMT

@RzzB: I feel your pain. I'm chair of a small local history group with about 100 members. Sent out a bcc email to all of them from my gmail account today, 125th May, and all the BTinternet addresses have down what you described.

No one else has a problem except possibly talk21 (?). This is very annoying.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:50:40 GMT

Well - Over a month and no reply from the Postmaster.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:01:22 GMT

Ohh - Trebian. My understanding is that100 bccs is not a good idea. Don't get your Gmail account locked! We only use bcc for a small number - 10 or so max.

Much better to use a bulk mailer. Many of them have a free option. We use Mailchimp but when I get a moment I will investigate some others like SendInBlue or whatever. It also handles the privacy side of things too - people can unsubscribe for example.

Anyway - best of luck.

Roy

Re: Emails rejected as spam

daveq2 — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 22:43:24 GMT

I have exactly the same issue. Did you find any resolution?

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 05:51:52 GMT

No - Postmaster never replied.

I recommended the three people concerned move to Gmail.

Roy

Re: Emails rejected as spam

RzzB — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 09:50:10 GMT

Happend again today - simple email to one person. Rejected as spam.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

dheadey — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 21:56:16 GMT

I would also suggest that you contact the recipients or rather non recipients, if using email do it one at a time which they will hopefully receive, and ask them to add your email address to their "Safe Sender" list which can be found in their email settings which are found by logging onto their email account and clicking on their username at the top right then going to "Mail".

I've been having exactly this problem (or rather the mailchimp user trying to send me genuine email has) and the parargraph here seems to be the key. Many thanks. I'm getting it tested now and will report here if any problems remain. For novices (like me) the steps are:

1. Click on username top right

2. Select Settings from the drop down menu

3. Select Mail from the menu on the left and then Safe senders

Re: Emails rejected as spam

Briggo1 — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 11:08:41 GMT

This is a nightmare. I’ve lost contact with more than 20 of the members of the Bridge Club I’m treasurer of (including myself). If I can find out how a BT mail user can designate a safe sender address, I can set up a contact list of BT addressees on my BT account and email instructions to them.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

Briggo1 — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 11:14:07 GMT

Sending emails one at a time or as to, cc target than bcc doesn’t work. Once BT has registered a gmail address as unsafe all emails from that address to BT addresses are undeliverable.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

Briggo1 — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 11:15:55 GMT

Talk21.com is a BT address. I am also having gmail rejected by plusnet.

Re: Emails rejected as spam

Briggo1 — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:33:10 GMT

Sending emails one at a time or as to, cc rather than bcc doesn’t work. Once BT has registered a gmail address as unsafe all emails from that address to BT addresses are undeliverable.

I’m going to test the safe sender procedure on my BT email, using the BTInternet web interface. If it works I’ll use my BT email to send the procedure to BT recipients in my gmail distribution list.