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Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Fri, 27 Sep 2024 15:32:48 GMT

I have a copper telephone network in my house. I have a standard telephone outlet in every room in the house. I most rooms there are two telephone socket outlets. The master telephone socket outlet is in the entrance hall near the front door. The wires then go to an external connection where BT connects the telephone and broadband service. My office is on the first floor and my Hub is connected to the broadband via one telephone socket outlet and my telephone is plugged into the other telephone socket outlet. I get a good WiFi signal in every room in the 3-story house. I am upgrading to full-fibre with digital voice but wish to keep the internal copper network energised and my office on the 1st floor.

Can BT connect the full fibre cable to the existing copper network so I can maintain my Hub and office on the first floor and use any telephone socket outlet to plug my phones into various rooms?

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

iniltous — Fri, 27 Sep 2024 15:48:11 GMT

Search voice reinjection on how to incorporate your copper wiring extensions into your FTTP with SH2 router , this is your responsibility, the FTTP installer won’t do this for you , the work involved will depend on where the FTTP ONT is located, basically the extension wiring will need to be redirected to connect to the router and needs to be disconnected from where the copper cable enters the property, it’s not beyond an competent DIYer , but a tradesperson could probably be found to do this if that’s easier, but it’s not Openreach or BT ‘job’ to do this .

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Fri, 27 Sep 2024 15:49:36 GMT

Firstly your internal wiring is your responsibility not Openreach's, so you will have to make the changes yourself. Openreach will expect the ONT and hub to be co-located.

There are two things you will need to do.

First you will need to run a Cat 5e or better Ethernet cable from the ONT (Optical modem) to your hub assuming that Openreach won't be able to site it adjacent to your hub on the 1st Floor.

Second, you simply need to disconnect the incoming copper wires from the master socket and then connect your hub's green phone socket to the extension phone socket using a double ended BT431 lead.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 07:26:13 GMT

Could you put that in plain English please by defining the multi letter anagrams you have used?

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 07:33:40 GMT

Why can't I connect an ethernet cable from the optical modem to the master telephone socket?

Not having a hub on the 1st floor would not deliver WiFi to the whole house as it does now.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 07:33:47 GMT

I already did.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 07:36:39 GMT

You can't connect an Ethernet cable to a phone socket. You need an Ethernet cable from the ONT to the hub, not a phone cable.

Distributing the phone signal from the hub is simply a matter of connecting the hub phone socket to any convenient existing phone socket. But you will need to run an Ethernet cable for the broadband.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 07:45:17 GMT

My current hub is connected by ethernat cable through a ADSL filter to the phone socket.

So why can't I juste repeat that, connecting the ethernet cable from the optical modem to the internal copper phone network?

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 07:54:55 GMT

No it isn't. It is connected by a DSL cable which is only 2 wires and totally different technology to Ethernet which is 8 wires.

It would be akin to connecting a gas fire to a mains socket, it can't be done.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:03:19 GMT

If you really are unable or unwilling to run an Ethernet cable, it is possible to connect the ONT to the hub using powerline adapters which use your mains wiring to carry the Ethernet signal. The speed you will obtain using this method will be dependant on the quality of your mains wiring.

Have look at https://www.tp-link.com/uk/powerline/ for an explanation of how they work

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:37:40 GMT

I don't think you have understood properly. My current configuration is that the BT cable runs to a junction box on the external wall. In that junction box it connects to the phone network. The phone network was installed in the house during construction.

Therefore my phone network carries the signal for BT broadband and and a phone line. I connect the hub to the phone socket in my 1st floor office using a ethernet cable as described before.

I don't understand why the fibre cannot be connected to the built in phone wiring as I suggested. Can you explain please?

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

iniltous — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:44:08 GMT

Your current master socket effectively is redundant once FTTP is installed, the ‘equivalent’ point on FTTP is the ONT ( optical network termination ) and can be near the master socket if that’s what you want ( and a power source is available for the ONT and co located router ) , but in your circumstances may not be ideal as your current setup , your router isn’t near the master socket but connected by an extension socket in a different location, this copper wiring , as stated , is of no use regarding the connection of ONT to the router .

Assuming you want the router to remain where it is , it may be possible to locate the ONT near it , but it’s much more likely the installer won’t agree to a location that will take considerable time and effort, hence the difficulty in giving exact advice, you won’t know where the ONT can be located until the installer arrives, it doesn’t need to be near the master socket , but can’t be in a location that takes hours to get the optical cable to your preferred location and generally that means pretty close to where the cable enters from outside.

The main point to take from this is , it’s not the installer’s responsibility to connect your extensions , the router connects to the ONT , your phone connects to the router , the standard distance between the ONT and router is 1 to 2 meters ( the size of the supplied Ethernet cable ) , you are at liberty to use any size Ethernet cable yourself if you want the router sited away from the ONT ( for example ONT near the master socket , router where it is now ) but you would supply that longer Ethernet cable and install it yourself.

Its not complicated to reintroduce copper extension wiring , but it may be time consuming, depending on what exists where.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:41:57 GMT

Sorry I read this out of sequence.

The built-in phone network is not a 2 cable wire as you believe.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

iniltous — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:55:26 GMT

The built in ( extension) internal phone cabling may have a multi pair cables , but only two wires ( one pair ) is used , and even if these cables have the equivalent number of wires as Ethernet, it’s not Ethernet cabling , it may be possible to terminate more pairs within the cables and provide Ethernet sockets in place of the phone sockets , that’s something you could explore but it’s not that likely it’s going to be of any use , apart from used as it is now , as extension wiring but connected to the router , not the master socket, that’s what voice reinjection on FTTP is .

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:55:05 GMT

No, but it only utilises 2 wires currently for broadband and is not Ethernet.

Currently, your phone and broadband are carried over the same 2 wires, once you move to full fibre, your broadband and phone will be entirely separate.

The telephony solution you require will be extremely simple. Just disconnect 2 wires from the master socket and connect your hub to the same socket that it connects to currently but with a different cable to a different socket on the hub.

However, your broadband signal will need to be delivered separately to your phone wiring. This can only be achieved by either an Ethernet cable from ONT to hub or via powerline adapters as previously stated.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:56:02 GMT

What if I told you the wire in the phone network is ethernet cable. Would that change your opinion?

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

Peterhcee — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 09:01:21 GMT

But the phone will be changed over to digital voice.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

yorkspark — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 09:09:00 GMT

@Peterhceewrote:
What if I told you the wire in the phone network is ethernet cable. Would that change your opinion?

How about you give all the facts to enable a correct answer?

Detail what you have and where ie - from the joint outside, what cable goes to where

have you a cat5e from the joint to a bt nte master?

from the master have you got cat5e running to the extensions?

is the cat5e daisy chained or does it run via a patchpanel or switch etc

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

licquorice — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 09:10:10 GMT

Do you or don't you wish to continue using and extension sockets for voice? Your original post implied you did. If you don't, then yes, if you truly have Ethernet cabling it can be repurposed but will require changes to both your master socket and 1st floor socket to Ethernet sickets rather than the current phone sockets.

Re: Full fibre connection existing internal copper network

WSH — Sat, 28 Sep 2024 09:12:32 GMT

Two points:

What grade of ethernet cable? If it is cat 5, (as opposed to 5e), it is only likely to be capable of 100Mb/s.
Phones are usually wired as a daisy chain. Computer networks are a star. Daisy chain will not work for computers, (unless you are using just the one socket. In which case, you might get away with it).