This topic

Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 11:34:29 GMT

Picture this. You are vulnerable elderly. You rely on your landline, don't have a mobile or email, and no pushy, tech savvy younger relatives to set things up for you, and harrass companies when things go wrong.

You hear that you must change to 'digital voice'. It will be better, apparently. You must have internet, which you haven't had before. You don't understand why. The wiring must be changed. BT will handle it, don't worry! Except they hand it to Openreach, which is staffed by a noisy call centre in India where the staff have strong accents and use jargon you don't understand. Openreach subcontract it to Kellys. They seem nice, but BT want you to manage the whole process by text message and email.

You need extension leads for all the power supplies, which you must pay for. They say you can keep your phone where you used to have it, on the table in the lounge, where it's been since 1975. There's a gizmo that needs plugging in. But the nice man from Kellys says it doesn't work. You need to plug your phone in in the room with the hub thing. You can't get to that phone in time.

Does BT give a sh*t about all this? Has it put in place any staff to support these people? Has it made any attempt to start identifying who they are, ahead of the 'digital switchover'? Or will it leave them til last, wait to hear from them and then cut off their service when they don't take the initiative?

That might sound dramatic, but I know someone whose mother only received inbound calls as she has dementia. BT assumed she was DEAD and cut off the line.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

imjolly — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 11:55:43 GMT

if you elderly relative or mother are phone only - no internet - then they are in the last category t be moved to digital voice openreach are in looking into a phone that phone only people will be able to use but not available yet

try reading the digital voice FAQ and the links included

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Digital/Digital-Voice-FAQs/td-p/2207485

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 12:13:07 GMT

Interesting, thanks. A vulnerable person could not understand the first sentence of that, however, so you see the huge gulf there.

Here is an interesting article. I note what they say about it not really being a 1 year extension.

I do have an elderly mother who is switching well ahead of schedule, because I took the initiative. My late dad did use internet and they had Plusnet fibre to the cabinet and a landline. She was told she must migrate to BT to keep a landline because VOIP will only be available from BT (hardly fair competition, but whatevs). Despite that Plusnet is a subsidiary of BT, this has been a total nightmare, of dozens and dozens of emails and texts, and nobody explained that this involves 'porting the number' and that may involve days with no service. Until there was days with no service.

Wait time to the call centre is 40 minutes in the evenings, then to be transferred to so called 'tech' is another wait, with a maximum timeout of 10 minutes, after which you are thrown out of the queue and have to go back to square one. Ie stay in an endless loop for the rest of your life, unless like me you are a pushy, devious, manipulative old mare, who grew up in a time where everything was done on the phone, you worked a switchboard for a government department and you know all the tricks in the book.

I put the order in in June, mom is without a phone line all this week. My username was chosen on purpose.

Further comments on the actions of BT welcome, by anyone who knows more about their 'plans'.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

Christopher_G — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 12:41:36 GMT

Hi @kafka-esque

Welcome to the community.

We have a BT Vulnerability policy, which is designed to get extra help for those who are in need of it. We try to make the switchover as easy as possible and have support teams on hand to help, when needed.

I've sent you a private message to try and get some help for your mother's landline service.

Chris

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 13:01:18 GMT

Thankyou Chris, that is kind and I will reply to your PM. Worth to note that at no time were we told about the support team for the vulnerable, despite that I registered her as vulnerable from the start.

None of the automated emails mentioned a possible break in service during the transfer, nor did Plusnet when I phoned the order in. If you are in any position to feed back all of this, I will be happy to write you a summary of the saga with my comments once the situation is sorted, if you can assure me it will go to anyone who gives a damn and can do anything, and not into a whirling void of dysfunction, which is my current impression of the BT / Plusnet / Openreach empire. I have been keeping full notes, plus a folder of emails and all the texts.

The initial hypothetical scenario I described above doesn't really describe the hassles I have had for my mom. I simply imagined what it would be like if she didn't have a pushy daughter to stand up for her.

I note you didn't comment on the issues with the call centre waits and timeouts. What is the official line on that?

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

chrisjp — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 13:51:14 GMT

"They say you can keep your phone where you used to have it, on the table in the lounge, where it's been since 1975. There's a gizmo that needs plugging in. But the nice man from Kellys says it doesn't work."

I'm afraid the "nice man from Kellys" is wrong. DV adapters ("gizmos") DO work - they are like a portable phone socket that you can locate anywhere you have a mains electricity socket to plug it into.
I have two in my house since I was switched to DV - one was free, the other I paid £20 for and both work well.
I also don't understand your anticipated need for "extension leads for all the power supplies". You'll need some sort of hub for DV, granted, and this will need one power supply. However, if you locate the hub reasonably near to an electricity socket they'll be no need for any extension lead and, as I've said, a DV adapter allows you to have your phone anywhere you want in the house.
The only downside of DV over the old analogue phone system is that you do need an electricity supply to the house, so in the event of a power cut you lose your phone service. This can be mitigated by use of a battery backup system and I understand BT is working on plans to provide these to vulnerable customers

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:13:54 GMT

The nice man from Kellys did in fact say that the one they had sent to my mom seemed dodgy - I didn't make that up, and he did try to plug her phone with the answering machine into the router in a room she doesn't go in, thinking that it was no problem for a woman who can barely walk and has memory issues to go into another room just to look for phone messages, because she had the second handset in the lounge. This shows how little people are trained to understand the ways and needs of vulnerable elderly.

3 power sockets are needed as I understand it - one for the fibre box, one the router and one the DV adaptor.

Also another for each phone, if they are hands free ones (in comparison to the old type of phone, which didn't need a power supply).

Setting up my mom's house for the engineer visit, I had to purchase two extension leads, as houses occupied by people who have been living there since 1962 like her, aren't usually highly provisioned with sockets.

Plus add on another socket for your hypothetical battery the boffins are developing in their secret underground laboratory, hopefully before the copper wires are turned off.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

gg30340 — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:50:56 GMT

If your mother has DECT cordless phones with a base station and one as an extension all that is needed is to plug the base station into the power socket then into the phone port on the BT Smarthub and the base station phone and the extension cordless phone will work in the same way as it does now.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 07:06:08 GMT

See my paragraph above: she does not want the answering machine (ie phone base station) in a room she barely goes in (where the smarthub is). She can barely walk and has memory problems - should she have to remember to go in a room specially to check her answering machine? Please don't tell me to make her use the virtual answering machine - she is 85, set in her routines, tech phobic, finds it hard to learn new things. She just wanted her answering machine WHERE IT WAS. My original point is about VULNERABLE people. People who can't do the things you can do, who can't cope with changes.

By the way, no one from BT has responded, no one made the booked callback yesterday, (thanks Connections Team, hope you are having a lovely morning!)

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

licquorice — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 07:19:07 GMT

All that is required is to place a Digital Voice Adapter at a location of your choosing and plug the answering machine into it. Rocket science it isn't.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 07:29:23 GMT

The nice man from Kellys did in fact say that the one they had sent to my mom seemed dodgy

We have not been able to establish if it is or is not faulty, since the line has not been turned on, despite the installation being on Monday afternoon. Yes before you ask I have chased it multiple times, including a phone call of 1.5 hours.

Again, how would a vulnerable person even begin to unpick this? I am making two points here:

BT have massively let my mother down, and nobody mentioned AT ALL EVER during the order stages that the phone might be off for days on end (yes this is a known risk I am now told, but the powers that write the standard emails and texts apparently don't know this)

My mother is representative of a group many of whom cannot cope without a pushy techy relative. BT appears to have no provision for this group, despite the policy. And what use is a policy if you are not told about it? I have never yet spoken to anyone who is in a team helping the vulnerable, despite registering my mom with both physical and memory problems. Hell, I can't even get a booked callback done.

Also, btw, using phrases like not 'rocket science' comes across badly, just saying.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

iniltous — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 09:50:15 GMT

TBH , there is much that is inaccurate with your post

Picture this. You are vulnerable elderly. You rely on your landline, don't have a mobile or email, and no pushy, tech savvy younger relatives to set things up for you, and harrass companies when things go wrong.

You hear that you must change to 'digital voice'. ( Eventually Yes , but no compulsion and no requirement for telephony only customers to move ) It will be better, apparently. ( It’s an engineering necessity, the PSTN equipment is at the end of it’s useful life ) You must have internet, which you haven't had before. ( Not true ) You don't understand why. The wiring must be changed. ( That’s FTTP , nothing to do with Digital Voice ) BT will handle it, don't worry! Except they hand it to Openreach, which is staffed by a noisy call centre in India where the staff have strong accents and use jargon you don't understand. ( Openreach inbound call centres are UK based ) Openreach subcontract it to Kellys. They seem nice, but BT wants you to manage the whole process by text message and email.

You need extension leads for all the power supplies, ( not true ) which you must pay for. ( not true ) They say you can keep your phone where you used to have it, on the table in the lounge,( you can ) where it's been since 1975. There's a gizmo that needs plugging in. But the nice man from Kellys says it doesn't work. You need to plug your phone in in the room with the hub thing. You can't get to that phone in time.( the gizmo is not necessary and is for those that don’t want to connect a phone to the router , but that’s broadband customers , so doesn’t affect your relative )

Does BT give a sh*t about all this? (Yes ) Has it put in place any staff to support these people? ( yes ) Has it made any attempt to start identifying who they are, ahead of the 'digital switchover'? ( yes ) Or will it leave them til last, wait to hear from them and then cut off their service when they don't take the initiative? ( it’s never happened and it’s not likely to ‘)

That might sound dramatic, ( and inaccurate ) but I know someone whose mother only received inbound calls as she has dementia. BT assumed she was DEAD and cut off the line. ( if a line was cut off it was for non payment, not because calls were not made )

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 10:55:46 GMT

Thanks for your detailed critiquem iniltous. Do BT pay you?

There IS a requirement for telephony only customers to move to digital voice. Not right now, which is why I made it clear that I was moving my mother over ahead of time. But soon, how soon is mentioned in the article I helpfully linked above.

You must 'have the internet' because digital voice is VOIP. Spoiler - the I stands for Internet. You may not have a computer and be able to 'see' and use the internet, but you have it. The wiring is changed - to Fibre to the Premises. The Premises is my mom's house by the way.

Openreach call centres are allegedly UK based, but I have just been talking to BT Executive Complaints Team and they have no idea why I have been put onto India TWICE. But I have. I have emails to prove it, a lot from a pleasant guy called Anubama. He sent me so many automated reminders to sign the permissions to work sheet I had already signed that I had to block his email. I also spoke to a nice lady about the Number Porting Issue. She had a strong accent, and repeatedly called me ma'am and I am pretty sure we don't do that in this country. Maybe I am wrong and she was in Stoke On Trent, but as someone who has spent many weeks roaming that fine country, I'd wager a tenner she was in India.

You have to have THREE pieces of new equipment which need a power supply, as I mentioned above. An old style phone needs zero power supply. Old people's houses don't have lots of sockets. My mom's front room has 3. One for the lamp, one for the hoover, so one short for the router and fibre box set up. I had to buy an extension lead. It was £6.99. Would you like to see the receipt? Or would you rather mom unplugged the router to use the hoover? (Old people do that kind of thing you know, because they are vulnerable and don't understand that you don't unplug routers, so I had to think ahead. Wouldn't want her Voice over Internet to be cut off just for a few crumbs on the carpet)

BT apparently does have a team helping vulnerable customers, but the first I heard of them is on here. I registered my mom as vulnerable and no one told me about the policy or the team. Should vulnerable people who can't use the internet have to post on an internet forum to find out about the people who can help the vulnerable? No communication during the whole set up process mentioned that the phone line might be down for several days. I have been phoning BT every day, because mom can't use her phone: maybe she should have emailed the vulnerable customers team she didn't know about, using her email that she can't use? Do you see why I chose my username now?

Oh and don't make assumtions about the financial affairs of people you haven't met.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

Carlusha — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 10:48:03 GMT

My God! At the back of all this, there was absolutely NO reason to have had to make the change to digital. This isn't the first time we have seen this sort of post. Shocking, truly shocking!

At almost 80 years of age AND deaf, I begin to worry that I should encounter a similar situation. It is threads like this that illustrate clearly the failings through a lack of cohesiveness within the BT Group. I do hope that positive actions are taken to overcome these failings in the near future.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

licquorice — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 11:00:05 GMT

@kafka-esque If only you had waited, your mother probably wouldn't have needed the internet connection to provide a VoIP service.

It is quite possible the telephony only customers will be provided with a service whereby an analogue adapter is provided at the exchange thus the VoIP part of the circuit does not commence at the customers premises.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 11:05:10 GMT

Thanks for your support carlusha. I am certainly happy to share my experience with anyone in BT who wants to hear it, once I am out of this nightmare of trying to get my mom's phone to work.

Even the hold music when you try to call BT is I imagine extremely offputting for the elderly. I am a fan of electronic dance music, but I don't think many over 80s share my tastes. And when the hold is often over 40 minutes, really, you need to be into the beats, or you might hang up (which BT is probably hoping you will).

I do think the change to digital is necessary, but the vulnerable should be prioritised first, not left behind the ones with pushy nightmare daughters like me.

I was driven to distraction for 4 years by poor copper wire infrastructure in my area causing sometimes hundreds of drops in my broadband a day, including cutting me off twice in video job interviews. I waited and waited for BT to upgrade to Fibre to the Premises and they never did. Finally a company called Community Fibre came along and I am in bliss now, but i don't need a landline. Unfortunately for people who want to keep a landline, BT is their only choice.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 11:08:12 GMT

Liquorice - I love how you use 'it is quite possible' ie no one knows yet. The deadline has been extended once already.

I didn't want to leave it until the last minute, because then everyone will be doing it in a rush, and the so-called vulnerable people support team (if they even exist), will presumably be run off their feet.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 11:16:06 GMT

@licquorice @Carlusha

Apparently this was a Plusnet connection, who are withdrawing telephony. Hence the need to move provider. That by default means VOIP due to the withdrawal of all new analogue connections.

We need to be realistic here & acknowledge the OP's complaint that BT are awful communicators & absolutely hopeless when it comes to resolving any issue that goes beyond turn it off & on again.

@kafka-esque

BT certainly isn't the only choice, but it might be if the Plusnet was still in contract.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

iniltous — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 11:53:17 GMT

This can be pretty much summed up as , telephony only customer, that had absolutely no reason to move onto DV yet , is migrated by a well meaning but uninformed relative ( and isn’t even a BT customer )
If they had waited , until the relative was advised by their provider ( not BT ) that they now had to make some decisions, who knows what the management of this customer would have looked like , it’s not even on the horizon yet , being January 2027 , the undeniable fact is that BT did not initiate this , the customers agent did .

I’m a BT customer by the way , not a BT employee.

Re: Digital Voice and the vulnerable elderly - what a (sick) joke!

kafka-esque — Fri, 04 Oct 2024 12:16:20 GMT

rbz5416 thanks for your support.

The full circumstance is that my mom was on Plusnet Fibre to the Cabinet, with a landline. The contract hadn't ended but my dad passed away and it was in his name, so we had to change it anyway. I had no appetite to leave it until next year, which I confidently predict will be a royal sh*tshow (government have intervened to extend the deadline once).

My mom is far less techy than my dad was. She has an ipad but just looks at the news and weather. She can see her emails but my sister manages the inbox and replies to them. She has never used the internet to 'do' anything, even order a prescription. She has early cognitive decline and cannot really learn anything new or cope with new routines or things being moved around the house. She struggles to use a mobile, and had let hers gather dust since dad died, just using her landline.

Plusnet told me that my only option was to move to BT to keep any kind of landline phones (ie normal handsets, as opposed to something like Zoom), so I don't know what other options you are referring to. Given that Plusnet are a subsidiary of BT, you would think that Plusnet would give reliable advice about options. I guess not then.

The onboarding process to BT FTTP is shockingly dreadful. I had Community Fibre do my own house last year and it was the easiest thing EVER. I phoned them up and they did it the next week. No million emails, texts, portals, profiles, signable PDFs, just text YES, just text NO (can I text a swear word please?). Just two friendly geezers and a ladder and £21 a month (although we do have overhead wires here). As I said above, at NO POINT during the whole process was it ever mentioned that the phone line might be down for several days. Now speaking to the numerous staff in BT I have had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few days, I have been told by ALL of them that this is a known possibility.