This topic

Fibre to home and Digital Voice

straightwave — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:34:04 GMT

Hi All.

Situation:

I am being offered (threatened with :0) ) full fibre (FTTP) to my house by BT and hence digital voice (DV); we're currently copper wires POTS and VDSL and using my own (Draytek 2766VAC) modem (thats because the original BT Homehub [HH] was flaky and did not have the facilities I needed). This Draytek has VOIP and 2 x phone connections - based on SIP.

Despite talking to BT representatives (well done BT for at least providing this) at a local gathering I am still unsure what tech configuration will support our need for home phone and internet communications. NB The BT tech guys at this gathering did not say that BT / Openreach use a their own DV protocol / signalling..

Questions:

1) I am reading that BT / Openreach DV is based on a proprietary standard and only works with the BT Homehub. Can anyone confirm this, pls?

2) If 1) is correct and it is a proprietary standard, anyone know why Openreach / BT would choose to implement this over SIP etc? Can there possibly be any technical justification, or is it down to commercial stance?

If the statement in 1) is confirmed as correct, then my Draytek VOIP router is unusable for the phone and I must take the new BT HH to provide DV to our PSTN / POTS type phone, and internet at its LAN / WAN ports. More mains power to drive the new HH, right? - BT thereby forcing higher costs on us.

3) Has anyone got compensation for the extra mains power required for the new HH which would appear to be forced on me? :0)

4) If the statement in 1) is confirmed as correct, I would need to connect my Draytek router using its WAN port from the new BT HH to get internet comms. Correct?

Depending on costs (I will explore with BT / EE shortly) my options seem to be to continue with copper wires / VDSL + DV using a new BT HH (until 2027), or go to FTTP with GPON ONT and a new BT HH. See diags - if I got something wrong, pls advise.

Thnaks for reading!

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

jac_95 — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:37:39 GMT

Hi straightwave,

Thanks for the post and welcome to the Community.

This is an automated response as I can see you have a question about BT’s Digital Voice service. Rather than waiting for a response from the Community, you may find an answer to your question by using the search bar on the Community homepage. We also have a thread that contains a wealth of info related to BT’s Digital Voice, click this link to take a look, Digital Voice FAQs.

Got some questions or want to learn more about BT’s Digital Voice rollout? BT are running localised events as part of the regional rollout of Digital Voice - Click here to view the Digital Voice events

To learn more about the nationwide change to this Internet based voice service visit landlinesgo.digital

If you have already looked for the answer to your question and have not found anything that can help, then please ignore this message. One of our Community members will be along shortly to help you further.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

Keith_Beddoe — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:46:29 GMT

@straightwave

You have to use the BT Smart hub 2 as the first connection to your broadband service, if you want to keep a phone service, unless you are using a third party VOIP provider, as that would not be affected.

BT use a secure SIP connection based on their own authentication. This is to ensure that the origin and the presentation number of the call is guaranteed. Its not possible to implement that using a different router.

The optical modem does not provide the phone connection, as shown on your diagram. Its the BT Smart Hub 2 that does that, with a socket on the back.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

gg30340 — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:50:55 GMT

In addition to the above information, if you do a search in the forum you will find numerous posts how to set up your network using the Smarthub2 as the first device and thereafter how to connect your own router to be able to use that in your network.

The mains power needed is to power the Smarthub 2 annually is negligible and no you will not be compensated. It is up to you to decide if you want to use the BT Digital Voice service which is not compulsory or source your own VOIP service

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

straightwave — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:52:03 GMT

Ok thanks for that. Forgive me to persist on this so within the SIP standard (IETF) why cannot BT reveal the authentication parameters? the world routinely uses public / private key encryption to transport data with integrity, confidentiality, availability etc. Is this not technically possible? The downsides of this is more DC power (for the HH2) and more cost to me forced by BT? thanks..

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

Keith_Beddoe — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:58:17 GMT

BT would never provide that information, as it would undermine the integrity of the phone network.

Even the BT Business Cloud Voice service only allows BT supplied VOIP phones which have the settings hard coded within.

If you want to use your existing router with its ATA ports, you would have to use a third party VOIP provider, which is not going to be as secure.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

straightwave — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:02:51 GMT

Thanks this diagram is very helpful. I may choose to keep copper wires or I may go full fibre - depends on my discussion with BT sales and monthly cost once I have sorted the tech concepts. I will want to keep my Draytek kit as the home data source (ethernet + WiFi) so how best to connect the Draytek - presumably using its WAN port, for case 1) copper wires to home or case 2) FTTP? - in this case 2, do I connect the Draytek to the "modem 4 ports", or to the HH2? Thanks in advance..

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

iniltous — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:06:58 GMT

I’m not quite sure what your issue is , if you would prefer to use a traditional VoIP supplier and not the BT proprietary VoIP service ( DV) then port your number to a traditional provider, that way your BT broadband becomes a standalone broadband product which is cheaper , the saving obviously depends on what calls package you currently take, you can then use your own router if that’s your preference ……BTDV isn’t compulsory, if you don’t like the way it’s implemented or the equipment required to use it , that’s fine , you don’t have to subscribe to it .

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

Keith_Beddoe — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:08:00 GMT

@straightwave

If you renew or regrade your service, you will have to go on BT Digital Voice, as its no longer possible to keep a PSTN connection, as the service is ending.

You can opt for broadband only, and use another VOIP service.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

licquorice — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:10:00 GMT

Exactly, simply keep your existing setup as broadband only and use a third party VoIP provider for voice.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

gg30340 — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:27:18 GMT

@straightwave wrote:
The downsides of this is more DC power (for the HH2) and more cost to me forced by BT? thanks..

BT's Digital Voice is NOT being forced on you. You can choose to use it or not. If you do decide to use it you must use their equipment in order for it to work. If you do not like the idea of that then don't choose it!

If the annual cost of using the SM2 is going to be a burden on you I would suggest that you look around for a different Internet provider which supplies a VOIP service or a stand alone VOIP service to see what that will cost you annually.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

straightwave — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:34:33 GMT

Thanks for reply. Well if I may you do not convince on power consumption and I'd like to see evidence regarding the security issues and why SIP / etc is not a goer to be persuaded. There's tonnes of complaints about power on the forum. I read the HH2 power is ~10Watts, 90 kwH per year ~ £22+/yr added cost to us. More if we want battery backup. Multiply by all number of customers in similar boat - how green is your valley? :0). Because of BT / Openreach policy not to use proprietary standard? Regards..

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

Keith_Beddoe — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:43:28 GMT

All providers, not just BT, have to use VOIP now, or not provide a phone service at all, and rely on people to use a third party VOIP service.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

gg30340 — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:52:24 GMT

@straightwave wrote:
Thanks for reply. Well if I may you do not convince on power consumption and I'd like to see evidence regarding the security issues and why SIP / etc is not a goer to be persuaded. There's tonnes of complaints about power on the forum. I read the HH2 power is ~10Watts, 90 kwH per year ~ £22+/yr added cost to us. More if we want battery backup. Multiply by all number of customers in similar boat - how green is your valley? :0). Because of BT / Openreach policy not to use proprietary standard? Regards..

Well don't choose it !!!!

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

iniltous — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:39:01 GMT

I’m guessing you are just being argumentative around power consumption, I dare say the SH2 you don’t want to use is pretty similar in its power requirements to your own existing router , want BTDV , use the SH2 , and put your router in a draw or cupboard, the power consumption will be the same , want to keep your preferred router and have BTDV , then you are choosing to do so , there is no compulsion to take BTDV , so the extra yearly expense of both routers connected together is your choice , if the extra power consumption is so onerous, and your preferred VoIP is a public access system, port the phone number to your choice of VoIP provider, and put the SH2 in a draw or cupboard, pretty simple really .

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

TimCurtis — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:32:45 GMT

@straightwave

I'll just say that from a technical point of view using the SH2 for DV and your modem/router for servicing your home requirements should be pretty straightforward.

I did just that using my Asus DSL-AC68U sometime ago without any issues.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

gg30340 — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:45:21 GMT

@TimCurtis

I take it it did not make you bankrupt having to use the SH2 as well as your Asus.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

straightwave — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:45:21 GMT

BT is withdrawing analogue phone, so to maintain that level of service I am required to take some action, right?

Cause - effect.

Any DV option will require some new set up, the costs to me are at least my time needed to sort this out (days now), not helped by lack of info from BT (qv) before I opened this ticket. Further equipment will add more cost to me for power and new equipment too.

But anyways, thanks all for your rather rapid responses, I now have the tech facts to move forward and by all means close the ticket.

Intended as constructive feedback - if you have a back channel to the BT teams visiting our towns, if they had told me that BT DV is on a proprietary rather than an open system, it would have saved me time. I explained carefully to them that I had a Draytek VOIP router and they agreed that if it had phone sockets (it does) it was an option to use it with BT.

Regards

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

licquorice — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:51:31 GMT

Had you read the FAQ, you would have realised it is proprietary from the outset.

Re: Fibre to home and Digital Voice

WSH — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 16:40:45 GMT

@straightwave Re: your diagram. It's a LAN port on the Home Hub to the WAN port on the Draytek. There is a bit more setup required as well. If you search for it, I've provided details of how to do it on here several times before.

As others have said, the DV has to go through the Home Hub as it is proprietary, even though still based on SIP.

And just for the record. Full Fibre and DV are two separate issues. DV will run quite happily over copper.