This topic

SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sat, 10 May 2025 15:56:10 GMT

I am on FTTC and until recently have used SH1 without any problems. I was warned to expect imminent switch over to DV on May 1st 2025. I connected the SH2 that arrived a few days later and began using it without any problems for VDSL (Firmware version: v0.45.00.08028-BT), continuing to use old copper pair telephone while awaiting the switch over.

The analogue circuit was disconnected at ~midnight May 8th (40 hours ago) and so I connected my old telephone to the SH2's 431A socket expecting to continue as normal. There was no dial tone. After lengthy discussions with several BT GUIDEs, remote checks, reboots incuding to factory settings their conclusion (as things stand) is that the DV service is unable to function due to a problem with the router. A new device has been ordered, meanwhile VDSL is normal, but obviously we have no 'phone.

According to BT, the router they sent - and which I installed - does not match the equipment registered on their system. Their remote tests are telling them that the device is "not connected" to their servers and yet patently this is false. I am expecting that the new router will make no difference.

Any thoughts from BT-qualified personnel would be gratefully received.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jac_95 — Sat, 10 May 2025 15:57:39 GMT

Hi jfs99,

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Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sat, 10 May 2025 16:13:40 GMT

I should probably add that analogue equipment still connected to the incoming copper emits a standard "number unobtainable" tone like this when handsets are connected - https://www.britishtelephones.com/wavs/nu6784.wav

Does anyone know how to interpret this phenomenon from a technical perspective ?

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

imjolly — Sat, 10 May 2025 16:26:42 GMT

If you go to hub manager 192.168.1.254 into browser address bar . Once in hub manager do you see you phone number and does it show active or not configured

Sounds like your old analogue connection has been disconnected

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sat, 10 May 2025 17:40:23 GMT

Thanks for your reply. Underneath the "Status" panel there's a white panel with a telephone symbol and text "Not configured". The panel does not respond to mouse clicks. I think it is reasonable to assume that the analogue PSTN has been diconnected: this is what I understand by the phrase "switching to digital".

I gather that there should be a synthesised PSTN dial tone on the green 431A socket on the back of the SH2signalling that the SH2 is ready to act as an ADC between any old equipment and DV. The anomaly in this case is that this green socket is dead. I am trying to understand whether it is the SH2 itself or some part of the DV network that hasn't been connected properly, either hardware (in the cabinet ?) or some type of software switch presumably controlled by OR. BT has opted for the easy route which is to change the router. I think it unlikely that this is going to change anything but I understand why a faulty SH2 has to be eliminated.

If anyone can cast light on the likely causes I would be most grateful.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

WSH — Sat, 10 May 2025 18:34:50 GMT

If you have not already done so, it's worth pointing out that the Smart Hub will need a restart to pick up the new settings after you've connected the phone. (Unfortunately, it doesn't say that anywhere in the instructions).

Edit: Sorry, didn't read your original post properly, (as I'm doing the dinner). I see you said it was reset/restarted. For what it may be worth, I have two Smart Hub 2's and either one will pick up the DV settings with no problems when I swap them over, so I'm not convinced the guides are right when they say it's not the one they have on record.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

imjolly — Sat, 10 May 2025 18:30:15 GMT

Your digital voice is not configured and if after you try a hub restart it still shows as not configured then you need to phone CS 03301234150 and get them to help you get your DV activated

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sat, 10 May 2025 20:03:01 GMT

Thank you for your reply. We'll know whether it's a problem with the SH2 or some other DV connectivity issue once the replacement hub arrives. Actually I also have another SH2 but it's currently configured as an ethernet WAP and I'm reluctant to factory reset it (with all the faff involved in turning it back to a WAP) just to prove that there's a DV network fault. On the other hand maybe it IS the hub...

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

licquorice — Sat, 10 May 2025 20:08:26 GMT

I would be extremely surprised if it is the hub. It is far more likely DV hasn't been activated correctly.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sat, 10 May 2025 20:36:54 GMT

I tend to agree. But I don't see there's any alternative to letting BT "go through the motions" so that once the home equipment has been eliminated they can escalate the investigation according to their procedures.

AT least three things make me suspect that something has gone wrong with the order. First, according to the serial nos stored on their system, they think that I am still using a HomeHub4 (!). Secondly there's the fact that their diagnostic suite is telling the "BT Guide" that nothing is attached to the VDSL FTTC wires at my end - this despite the fact that I am obviously able to use the SH2 for IP4 traffic. The final thing that makes me suspect a network connectivity issue is that there's still a "number unobtainable" tone being generated over the copper pair coming to the premises upstream of any filters. When I checked my neighbour's incoming line upstream of the SH2 the two copper wires are dead so far as analogue devices are concerned. I was under the impression that changing to digital voice involved a physical disconnection of PSTN circuits inside the cabinet. The fact that there is still a strong analogue tone being generated on the copper wires connected to the BT socket makes me think something hasn't been done properly.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

WSH — Sat, 10 May 2025 20:47:43 GMT

When I was switched it was three months before the copper line was actually turned off. Also, are you aware that you could back-up the config on your WAP before you reset it? That would make it straight forward to turn it back into the WAP later.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sat, 10 May 2025 22:23:24 GMT

That's a good point. I've used backup/restore a few times on the main SH2 but it didn't occur to me to do it on the one I use as a WAP. Going to do this now. For anyone else who's interested in using their spare hub as a WAP I recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc9N1dUGdlA

UPDATE - Performed factory reset on second SH2 and connected in-line to replace the suspect SH2. Connected to VDSL immediately but DV still not configured. Still no dial tone on the green socket.

Obvious conclusion - The problem lies with the DV connection, not with the SH2.

For my money the BT side of things has been switched. They just need somebody from OR to complete the connection in the cabinet. But what do I know?

Any further thoughts from anyone else?

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

licquorice — Sun, 11 May 2025 07:21:52 GMT

It has nothing to do with the cabinet.

BT have not activated DV correctly

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

iniltous — Sun, 11 May 2025 08:12:19 GMT

As stated , nothing to do with a visit to the cabinet , moving to DV shouldn’t need any physical intervention, for one thing that’s an unnecessary expense , millions of visits , which woukd be to the exchange rather than the cabinet anyway , to disconnect the physical ‘jumpers’ …these are simply left in place with the PSTN equipment switched off .

You may well be onto something though , if ‘BT’ thought you had an older router connected when you in fact had a SH2, and when the ‘access’ your line they don’t see any equipment connected, when you are able to get on line …that suggests to me some sort of data error , to over simplify , if you are recorded as being on port 1 of the FTTC cabinet , but physically connected to port 2 , if port 1 is set up with DV with your information regarding your directory number , your router won’t be connected to that , but the PSTN service is completed anyway , hence you having neither DV or PSTN ….AFAIK, the serial number of the router is irrelevant in the authentication process .

A flaw in my suggestion would be how your PSTN service was OK , if you were cross connected to the wrong port as the PSTN passes through this equipment so on the wrong port would mean no PSTN or the incorrect PSTN service , presumably your incoming PSTN telephone service was OK , you were getting incoming calls successfully,

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Sun, 11 May 2025 11:26:37 GMT

Thanks, iniltous. Can we infer anything from the fact that there is still a classic "number unobtainable" / "out of service" tone being generated on the incoming copper pair? This signal is there both sides of the filter in the Master Socket 5C. When I checked my neighbour's BT installation there was no such analogue tone anywhere. This is what makes me think that my copper pair is still somehow physically connected to a PSTN line that has been disconnected further upstream. Naturally I shall try to convey this information to the BT call centre on Monday morning. What can I say to non-technical people reading from scripts and applying algorithms that will get this routed quickly to the right folks?

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

iniltous — Sun, 11 May 2025 13:05:56 GMT

I recon the thing that can be inferred is your phone number appearance on the PSTN switch has now been removed (arguably too early as the migration to the IP service hasn’t been completed ) so in effect anyone calling your directory number is still routed to the PSTN network but as your number no longer exists there , it returns NU tone , ( and if you try to make a call yourself using the PSTN service , unobtainable tone ) , when the migration is completed successfully any incoming call would be routed to the IP appearance of your number and via your hub , your phone would ring , and you would be able to make calls …….as stated earlier, 50v /conditions can remain on the copper pair long after a successful migration to DV and apparently those in limbo between the two services .

I do think the issues you had , as far as BT ‘seeing’ the wrong type of router connected and then saying you are not currently connected to the ‘internet’ which were both obviously incorrect are part of the same issue that has resulted in the failure of the migration to DV , leaving you not successfully connected to either PSTN or DV , and anecdotally it seems once issues occur fixing them isn’t straightforward….as you say , customer ‘guides’ rarely have a technical background , so them advising the appropriate ‘DV’ team within BT is essential to a quick resolution, hopefully they won’t suggest switching the router off and on or ‘give it a day or two’ , it’s not likely to simply start to work , intervention will almost certainly be necessary

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Mon, 12 May 2025 15:10:29 GMT

Spoke to BT again and got through to what I think was the DV connections team in Accrington. The guide confirmed that they still can't see any equipment connected to the VDSL. I played him the analogue NU tone on the copper pair and mentioned the suggestion that jumpers could be mis-matched in the cabinet for the configuration of the upstream systems. Consequently they've closed the original fault and are now sending out an engineer.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

iniltous — Mon, 12 May 2025 16:21:15 GMT

When the Openreach tech arrives, if they are confident that they know how to resolve this , leave them to it , if they are somewhat perplexed , I’d suggest a ‘lift and shift’ , this basically moves your broadband configuration from the current ( potentially faulty ) port in the FTTC ‘cabinet’ , to another ‘clean’ port , this has the benefits, if the port you are on is in someway faulty , you are moved away from it to another port ,and ‘refreshed’ with ‘ clean data’ if it was data corruption rather than a malfunctioning port that was the issue , hopefully the visit solves whatever it is .

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Mon, 12 May 2025 18:39:13 GMT

Thanks again. I'll do exactly what you suggest and report back.

Re: SMARTHUB2 - No Dial Tone on 431A Socket

jfs99 — Fri, 16 May 2025 06:33:04 GMT

BTEE techie has attended. Checked the SH2. Checked the newly-delivered brand new SH2. Expressed surprise that it wasn't working and went away to write his report. That was three days completely wasted because I had already tried another SH2 and told them the problem was either in their DV database or the physical route into and out of the FTTC cabinet. The PSTN NU tone is still there. The DV is still dead.

He said that all the de-multiplexing of VOIP-Internet packets takes place in the SH2 meaning that if you've got broadband, then you should have DV. This can only mean that DV is not being multiplexed into the IP4 somewhere at thir end. The fact that we had the copper pair rerouted to a closer FTTC cabinet 5 years ago in order to obtain superfast broadband speeds (1500m vs 400 m) cannot, imho, be ruled out as the source of the problem. Maybe their system wasn't updated with the new cabinet details?