This topic

No Warning about DV Switchover

SportiveUK — Thu, 19 May 2022 11:29:14 GMT

Hi,

I have broadband (FTTP), 'landline' and mobile with BT which to be honest has been flawless over the last 4 years. I renewed my contract a couple of months back and there was no mention I would be switched to DV imminently and indeed I have had no other notification until yesterday when I received an e-mail out the blue notifying me a new SmartHub 2 was on the way as part of the switch.

I use a Draytek 2927 router and I am not prepared to use anything else for my internal network and other than asking BT nicely to pause any switchover until I have considered options etc, what are my options? Do I somehow have to connect up the SmartHub 2 as a dumb device, just to pass through the phone service? Is it going to be easier to not bother with a BT 'landline' at all or just go with another VOIP service and be done with?

I know the old analogue network is being turned off in 3 years however I should have received notification and sufficient warning before any immediate change is made to my service so I am not impressed! By all accounts the same has happened to my neighbours who suddenly found their phone stopped working until they asked the question and were told to plug it into their SmartHub!

Thanks

Andrew

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

jac_95 — Thu, 19 May 2022 11:30:25 GMT

Hi SportiveUK,

Thanks for the post and welcome to the Community.

This is an automated response as I can see you have a question about BT’s Digital Voice service. Rather than waiting for a response from the Community, you may find an answer to your question by using the search bar on the Community homepage. We also have a thread that contains a wealth of info related to BT’s Digital Voice, click this link to take a look, Digital Voice FAQs.

If you have already looked for the answer to your question and have not found anything that can help, then please ignore this message. One of our Community members will be along shortly to help you further.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

juiceof2limes — Thu, 19 May 2022 13:36:16 GMT

You options are;

If you don't want to use DV, then you can leave your Draytek in place and seek another provider for VOIP.

If you want to use DV, then SH2 will NEED to be connected as primary router connected to ONT with your Draytek then plugged into one of the LAN ports off the SH2. You would turn most options off within SH2, open DMZ from SH2 to your Draytek. And then you Draytek continues to be Firewall, routing, DHCP etc. This is what I have done. And documented here;

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Digital/Digital-Voice-with-different-Router/m-p/2227166#M83738

Only you can decide if you want DV or to seek another VOIP provider. Depends on the hassles of telling everyone your new number.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

SportiveUK — Fri, 20 May 2022 14:20:44 GMT

Thanks. It's not an elegant solution to have another device in the chain however it seems that most haven't had any issue and I guess if there are ever any issues with the incoming broadband connection, having the SH2 connected means BT can run their diagnostics. By having a 3rd party router connected to the ONT, I don't think the speed guarantee applies (that's what I was reminded of yesterday).

One point which has been made on the huge other thread but is worth noting again is that if the SH2 isn't connected or isn't visible to BT, the internal order which flags action needed for the switch to DV can't necessarily be made. If you therefore don't want to switch for the time being, you might not have to (although I suspect you might get hassled by BT)!

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Tim123 — Mon, 23 May 2022 20:06:13 GMT

BT have a new Digital Voice page: https://www.bt.com/broadband/digital-voice

which makes it clear that everyone should receive four weeks' notification of being switched to Digital Voice.

This is an improvement over their previous "no time limit" policy, but still woefully inadequate.

Such a major change requires at least three months' notice, to allow people to change their set-ups or find engineers or relatives to do it for them - particularly the elderly, vulnerable or less tech-savvy. Also, someone might be on holiday when the letter comes, which could drastically reduce the preparation time available to them.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

licquorice — Mon, 23 May 2022 21:20:38 GMT

Its hardly a major change, why on earth would you want three months notice?

For the vast majority of customers using cordless phones it is simply a matter of unplugging the base station from the master socket and plugging it into the hub if wishing to keep existing phones and/or pairing the DV phone(s) to the hub.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Tim123 — Mon, 23 May 2022 22:47:29 GMT

It's a major change for those who don't already have broadband with BT, or have no broadband at all.

It's a major change for those subscribed to calling features that will no longer work on Digital Voice.

I have a cordless phone but rarely use it, the sound quality is appalling compared to corded and I hate the slight delay to hear each tone when pressing the number and star/hash buttons. If such mediocrity suits most people, good for them.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

imjolly — Tue, 24 May 2022 09:26:40 GMT

@Tim123 wrote:

It's a major change for those who don't already have broadband with BT, or have no broadband at all.
BT are currently only switching broadband customers

It's a major change for those subscribed to calling features that will no longer work on Digital Voice.
which residential features are not working with DV?

I have a cordless phone but rarely use it, the sound quality is appalling compared to corded and I hate the slight delay to hear each tone when pressing the number and star/hash buttons. If such mediocrity suits most people, good for them.

With DV phones you will at last get a cordless phone with good reception and you can still connect you corded phone to SH2 to continue using if preferred

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Bob1001 — Sat, 28 May 2022 11:21:19 GMT

This is a major flaw in the whole process OFCOM make much of the need to easily swap providers but the change to DV makes the whole process more difficult particularly if you have different phone and broadband providers.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

iniltous — Sat, 28 May 2022 14:04:10 GMT

BT don’t supply broadband to customers that use another company for ‘line rental ‘ , and if someone has line line rental from another company then obviously they won’t be getting migrated onto DV as that is BT’s proprietary VoIP phone offer, those people are not BT customers .

If someone has WLR line rental from BT and uses another company for broadband , they currently are not in the DV rollout ( although at some point , they presumably will have to either take phone and broadband from the same provider either moving broadband to BT or telephony to the broadband provider ) but there are tiny numbers of these ‘line share’ customers , most broadband customers that have telephone service use the same provider for both phone and broadband.

Those that are BT customers that have no broadband from BT or anyone else on a line share basis on their WLR line are not currently in the programme for DV,

There seems that a lot of supposed issues highlighted, that are not actual real world problems.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Tim123 — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:38:19 GMT

@imjolly wrote:
which residential features are not working with DV?

Where to begin?

'Call Sign' is going early (confirmed withdrawal date: 30.09.22) - apparently because the all-singing, all-dancing, Smart Hub 2 can't cope with different ringing cadence (single-ring, in this case). I'm willing to bet that means 'Ring Back When Free' (press 5 over engaged tone) will also disappear, as it relies on a triple-ring to signal that the number you've been trying to call is now available. Perhaps BT could change that to the regular double-ring (after all, Caller Display tells you that the call is a "Ring Back"), thus allowing the feature to continue, but it's not mentioned on their 'Digital Voice Calling Features' web page, so I strongly suspect that it, too, is for the chop.

'Reminder Call' doesn't work on Digital Voice, according to a DV user I recently asked on here. That feature is also not mentioned on the DV Calling Features page, so I think we can safely assume it's being withdrawn. I rely on the 'Regular Reminder Call' variant of this feature; it's invaluable for me as a shift worker doing different days and hours each week. It means I can set all of my alarm calls a week in advance and not have to worry about them. A call from BT won't let you down, unlike a regular alarm clock or mobile phone alarm, so it gives me peace of mind on that count as well. I'll be lost without this feature and the thought of losing it is causing me considerable anxiety.

'Reminder Call' and 'Ring Back' are both available as pay-per-use on analogue (as well as monthly subscription), so customers who use them only occasionally will be affected along with subscribers.

'3-Way Calling' and 'Call Waiting' will not work with a non-Digital Voice phone, as they rely on use of the 'Recall' button (also known as 'Hook' or 'Flash'). Recall uses pulse/loop-disconnect dialling, which is not supported by Digital Voice, therefore the only way to continue using those two features is with a DV phone (which not everyone wants, especially if they prefer corded). I'm not sure how the DV phones get around the Recall issue, but that button is completely absent from them. Obviously, the Recall button on older phones will become redundant with Digital Voice.

'Choose to Refuse' and 'Anonymous Call Reject' are not mentioned on the DV Calling Features page, either. I suppose BT think that Call Protect is a sufficient replacement for those two features. However, Call Protect (which I tried and soon removed) is utterly pathetic compared to CTR and ACR. It doesn't actually "block" anything! In fact, Openreach internally refer to the feature as "Choose to Divert" - a far more accurate name. Calls are still connected (thus ensuring vital revenue for BT or whoever your provider is); your phone just doesn't ring and Caller Display is somehow bypassed as well. But, you have to keep dialling 1572 to see if a voice message has been left that might, just might, be important. And no, you can't deactivate the Voicemail element. What a pain! You also can't review your list of blocked numbers and unblock them using your telephone keypad - you have to do it online (not good for those without a My BT account, which is most of those who only take a phone service from BT), whereas CTR lets you do it on the phone. You can only block the last number that rang as well, whereas CTR allows you to manually add a number. I cancelled the feature and went back to Choose to Refuse and Anonymous Call Reject (both incompatible with Call Protect - which of course BT never told me when they talked me into having it). I admit that ACR is more valuable, as CTR only allows you to block 10 numbers; it would be far better if BT expanded that to 100 (the maximum permitted with Call Protect). But clearly they have no interest in expanding the service and want to wind it down.

'International and Premium Rate Call Barring' - this one is admin-controlled (unlike options 3 and 7 of the 'Call Barring' feature, which are customer-controlled with a PIN). Perhaps it will continue, but it's not mentioned on the DV Calling Features page.

1471 - No mention of this, either. I imagine that the 'Call Return' (press 3) element, at least, will go.

Presumably Call Barring and Call Diversion will still work as before, using a conventional phone connected to the hub. However, for some reason, the DV Calling Features page only gives the touch-tone codes for Call Diversion.

'Reminder Call' is the one I'll miss most. I can see no technical reason for it not to continue, as it requires neither a different ringing cadence nor the Recall button.

The above features are available, at no extra cost, to customers of Line Rental Plus and Home Phone Saver (with a few variations between the two). Those customers will be getting poor value for money once the majority of said features have gone. "There's no change to your plan or bill", brag BT about the digital switchover. An absolute lie!

No doubt the beautifully-spoken and reassuringly familiar voice of 1471 and most other BT network announcements (whose identity is unconfirmed, but rumoured to be Eleanor Bron), will also vanish and be replaced by something more modern and ghastly.

I've asked BT (twice) about which features will disappear with Digital Voice. They said "none, as far as we know." A few weeks later, I received a letter about Call Sign being withdrawn in September. They've really thought this through, haven't they(!) 🙄

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Keith_Beddoe — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:42:03 GMT

I think reminder call was implemented within the local exchange software, and as the exchanges are going, that would no longer be possible.

Many of the other features you mention are added features within the exchange software on many of the exchange equipment types. Features like call barring are implemented on the network, so it should be possible to maintain those.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Tim123 — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 16:17:32 GMT

@Keith_Beddoe wrote:
I think reminder call was implemented within the local exchange software, and as the exchanges are going, that would no longer be possible.

That sounds about right. BT say that "Reminder Call is subject to availability" and, apparently, only System X exchanges can handle the 'Regular Reminder Call' (dial *56* instead of *55*) variant of the feature - also known as 'Repeat Reminder Call' and 'Reminder Programme Service'; that must be why BT don't mention *56* in the Calling Features User Guide for residential customers, but it's in the guide for business customers. It works on my line (so I must be on System X), but not on my workplace line some 20 miles away. Also, when doing a standard Reminder Call on my line I hear a voice prompt after dialling *55*, but there's no prompt on my workplace line. At work, I just have to complete the instruction by entering the time in 24-hour format, followed by hash; then I hear a confirmation of the time set, in the same voice as on my line but in a rather more 'stuttered' and less natural manner.

@Keith_Beddoe wrote:
Many of the other features you mention are added features within the exchange software on many of the exchange equipment types. Features like call barring are implemented on the network, so it should be possible to maintain those.

So a system of useful calling features that has been carefully built up over many years is to be largely jettisoned because BT can't be bothered carrying them across to the network as a whole? How is that 'progress'? 😓

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

licquorice — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 16:39:22 GMT

Or to put it another way, why should a commercial company spend £millions developing software to continue a very niche service for a handful of customers that is not going to give them any return on the investment.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Tim123 — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 17:13:28 GMT

There's always one grump, isn't there?

If they were that uneconomical for BT, they wouldn't charge nearly £15.00 a month for the full Calling Features Pack and up to £7.50 per month for certain additional features such as Anonymous Call Reject. They're raking it in!

I'm sure the cost of incorporating all the features would be minimal, compared to the cost of implementing the digital switchover and even developing special handsets (for an increasingly 'niche' landline service!).

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:14:47 GMT

I totally agree with you Tim. DV switch-over is a major change for those that don't have broadband. But why are we talking about broadband? Are you saying DV only works with broadband? Not everyone has signed up to broadband! So how would it work, if they don't have a broadband connection? Everyone is supposed to be getting DV by 2025, not just broadband customers! 😃

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

licquorice — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:15:51 GMT

They will be given a low bandwidth broadband connection sufficient for DV.

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:19:42 GMT

I'm surprised we are talking broadband! 🤔

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

jac_95 — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:27:11 GMT

Re: No Warning about DV Switchover

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:32:16 GMT

The question in the blue box should read 'what about voice customers who don't HAVE broadband'? I know not everyone has phone lines that will work with broadband, unless they are changed, so I guess some customers will be getting new phones lines for DV to work.