This topic

FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUTER)

DisgruntledDave — Mon, 26 Jun 2023 21:53:35 GMT

Hello all 🙂

This will be my first post on BT's forum. So ill leave a description of the problem i have and any replies or opinions will be greatly appreciated.

As some of you may or may not know, BT are slowly phasing out the old phone system and replacing them with Digital Voice / Voip. This has finally caught up with me and Open Reach have disconnected my traditional Landline, and connected me to their Digital Voice service.

In my situation when BT took over my landline from my previous provider, they agreed to take over my landline and install a new Fibre to the premise connection, FTTP. At the time there was no mention of digital voice, nor in the future that they would disconnect my pre existing landline service and replace with digital voice.

My issue with BT is not that i have to accept digital voice or VOIP, more that their new service renders my current router and equipment useless as i am forced to use their Smart Hub 2 as a router if i would like to have phone services.

After spending many hours on the phone to technical support, i was made aware of a few things. Firstly the Smart Hub 2 can NOT be put into modem/bridge mode. This is a feature that was available for the Smart Hub 2 But was patched out in subsequent firmware updates. I have been told this IS a feature on the Smart Hub 2 for BUSINESS, and NOT for residential.

Now i am aware of the hacky DMZ/manual gateway method of setting, the Smart Hub 2 to run in conjunction with a third party router, where by i have 2 routers connected to each other. However double NATing is not an option for myself.

I was also told by a member of the BT team that once i am on digital its impossible to go back, and also that they can not port my Voip number that i have used for the past 10 years to a different provider.

Speaking to the residential and business teams they have provided me with one solution, and that solution is for me to become a business customer if i want to carry on using my own equipment.

So my question here is what are my rights ? Are BT creating a monopoly by forcing residential customers to use their equipment ONLY? Are BT creating a monopoly by not letting existing numbers be Ported to a different Voip provider ? Are Ofcom aware of what has been going on at BT?

Looking back through previous threads dating back to 2020 this not an isolated situation, and i'm sure i'm not the only BT residential customer that would like to use their own PPPoE router.

Thanks Dave

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

DonnyGuy — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 04:55:44 GMT

I’m probably a bit lost by this post so want to check my understanding.

So BT only offer digital voice to customers taking FTTP however when ordering FTTP you have a choice whether or not you want it.

If you do opt for digital voice, they provide the equipment you need to utilise it. As in a hub you can connect too.

There is nothing to stop you porting your number out of BT so long as the porting agreements between the companies are there.

If I’m reading right, it’s an issue that you do want digital voice but wanting to use third party routers to access it?

I’m not seeing a forced monopoly here. You’re free to take your service anywhere you like taking your number with you?

Or have I missed the point completely here?

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

SRB — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:12:03 GMT

You do have to use their router if you want to use BT DV, it's a proprietary system, however you could just go with their BB service and stay with your VOIP provider and keep using your own router?

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

DisgruntledDave — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 07:45:58 GMT

Sorry if I didn’t explain clear enough. I did not want the digital voice service, I was forced to take it when open reach disconnect my copper landline from the exchange. And switched me to digital voice, as part of their digital roll out because I was on FTTP.

My previous setup was, my own router connected directly to the ONT.

Telephone connected to old copper master socket.

I didn’t even know I was being made to go digital, I spoke to bt because my house phone stopped working. Then few days later I found out I was transferred to DV.

At that time I was told I’d need a smart hub 2 if I want to make calls, and thus rendering my own equipment useless

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

garybs29 — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 08:28:12 GMT

Sounds more like you never looked at order confirmations properly & are now throwing around unfounded accusations of a monopoly as you're annoyed at yourself tbh

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

SRB — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 08:42:09 GMT

If you weren't told you were being switched and only found out when the old line went dead, you should raise a complaint - there's clearly a issue with the process, if customers are being switched without them even having a Smart Hub 2 in situ first.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

gg30340 — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 09:24:29 GMT

When you ordered your FTTP you had the option at that time to take out Broadband only and no landline (phone).

If you did not select the option that you only wanted Broadband with no landline you must have selected Broadband and landline.

Because you selected that, you would be moved onto Digital Voice as that is all that is now being installed unless you are an existing BT landline (phone) customer in which case you should have specified that you did not want to move to Digital Voice at that time. You would however be moved at some point in the near future.

You do require a Smarthub 2 in order to use the Digital Voice service but you can use your own equipment in conjunction with the Smarthub 2 as long as the Smarthub 2 is the first piece of equipment. ie your router connects to the Smarthub 2.

There are many posts on the forum explaining how to do that.

As regards BT having a monopoly with Digital Voice you are correct but only because that is BT's Propriety Internet Phone service. If you want to use another Internet phone supplier, of which there are many, you are totally free to do so. If you choose to do that you do not need to use the BT Smarthub 2.

I think you will also find that the other major ISP's also have their own version of an Internet Voice Service which you must use their equipment to use.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

DisgruntledDave — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 11:40:49 GMT

Thank you for all the replies, This thread can be closed as i have decided to move my services to a new provider.

Summary of events

Aug 2021

Hello *****,

You asked us to move your broadband from your current provider to us, so we're getting the ball rolling on that now.

You don't need to do anything. We'll move your broadband on 14 Sep 2021 unless you cancel the order before 2pm, two working days before.

If you already have an account with us, we'll add the services we're moving to it. Otherwise, we'll create a new one for you.

Sept 2021

Hello *****,

It's the moment you've been waiting for: your broadband and phone services are ready. Read on to find out more.

about

Your broadband should be up and running now
To start using it, you need to set up your Hub. To do that, plug it into port 1 on your Openreach fibre modem. You'll know it's working when the light comes on.

The openreach modem was disconnected as i now had a ONT inside.
NEVER USED BT HUB AS I HAD MY OWN EQUIPTMENT. From here on out i never had any communication with bt other than bills or to report a telephone outage.

re-contracted mar 2023 - negotiated cheaper price (no mention of digital voice)

Then on the 16th May 2023 i got a leaflet through my door telling me about the digital voice roll out and BT's plans to end landline services by 2025.
I immediately phoned BT and registered a complaint, and explicitly told them i am not interested, i was told by the advisor not to worry as this would not be happening yet and that it was just a notification.

5 June 2023

Hello *****,

Great news, we're moving you to our Digital Voice home phone service. We'll activate it on 15 Jun 2023 and get you up and running within 48 hours.

What is Digital Voice?
Digital Voice is our new home phone service, and it uses your broadband connection to make and receive calls. This is a once in a generation upgrade to ensure that everyone stays connected now and into the future, and it offers lots of benefits over the existing system, such as inclusive calling features. etc

At this point i had not even seen this email notification from BT, and or accepted the new terms for digital voice.

on the 13th of june 2023 i called BT and reported a telephone fault as i had no telephone service. Unknown to me this was because they were porting my existing number to digital voice and had disconnected the old service. I even asked the person in the faults department if any work was scheduled or taking place on my line, i was told there wasn't.

BT booked an engineer out for the 20th June to visit because, no faults were showing on the line. They charged £40 for visit and then gave a £40 credit for the engineer. During that time i spoke to people at BT and they informed me about the new service i was getting. Engineer came with a SH2 and installed, Voip and BB working

Might i add between the 15th June - 25th June 2023 i was in Cyprus, and had to make many calls to BT and uk mobiles to try and figure out exactly what was going on, it was only in this period that i got full clarity of what had happened.

And so this is where i find myself today, maybe i am at fault for not seeing an email from BT about this. Maybe they could have wrote to my address and communicated better.

To just change a service like this is an injustice, in the last 24 hours i have spent hours on the phone to technical and retentions trying to figure out how to get my router to work with the SH2.

From the information given to me by technical, the residential SH2 had a bridge/modem mode and this feature was patched out in subsequent firmware updates. Its also my understanding that the SH2 for business has this feature. At one point i asked if i could buy a SH2 for business so i could put it into bridge mode and continue using my router. i was told i would need to open a business account, at this point someone at technical told me if you do this you will lose your Voip number too.

Anyway this has been my experience the last few days with BT, i wont go on any longer as i'm starting to ramble.

What is clear to me is that BT and Open Reach need to communicate better with its clients, and customers services need to have a more emphatic way of saying your £500 router wont work with our setup.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

garybs29 — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 11:45:15 GMT

@DisgruntledDavewrote:
Thank you for all the replies, This thread can be closed as i have decided to move my services to a new provider.

re-contracted mar 2023 - negotiated cheaper price (no mention of digital voice)

You are aware that based on that you'll have a bit of cancellation charges right?

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

licquorice — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:21:57 GMT

@DisgruntledDave

Please explain how you think using a business hub in bridge mode would make any difference?

All providers will need to move to a VoIP solution by 2025, not just BT

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

DisgruntledDave — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:28:41 GMT

Already been told by a manager I can leave free of charge

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

DisgruntledDave — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:31:03 GMT

Wasn’t my suggestion, what I was told in faults.

I was also told at faults to buy a gigabyte lan switch and plug that into my WAN connection and then plug in the sh2 and my own router into the switch 😂😂

BT have problems, if this is their advice

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

gg30340 — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 13:25:30 GMT

@DisgruntledDave wrote:

Already been told by a manager I can leave free of charge

Hope you got his full name.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

-Richie- — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 18:17:04 GMT

@DisgruntledDavewrote:
As some of you may or may not know, BT Openreach are slowly phasing out the old phone system and replacing them with Digital Voice / Voip. This has finally caught up with me and Open Reach have disconnected my traditional Landline, and connected me to their Digital Voice service.

I fixed your typo, It's Openreach that are retiring the PSTN (copper phone line) network, not BT or any of the other 600+ communication providers that use the network.

The reason comes down to cost, more and more of the UK are connecting to full fibre (FTTP) and running an old analogue network and fibre network costs money, on top of that the old copper network has more faults and costs more to maintain, so Openreach announced way back in 2016 their intentions to close the PSTN down, now all providers have introduced their own product, with BT that is Digital Voice.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

oldbuffer1 — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 13:59:44 GMT

The idea of having to connect one router to another (call it Home Hub or whatever, its still a router) doesn't make a whole lot of sense - just another software problem to outsort if it all goes pear-shaped. As far as I'm aware, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there are only three companies so far that offer a phone package (presumably as DV) integrated with FTTP, namely BT, Sky and Vodafone. All the others I've looked at are Full FIbre Internet only . Keeping a separate copper landline to maintain your home phone service as well as Full Fibre broadband must be somewhat expensive. And given the intention to abandon copper altogether sooner rather than later, DV is way to go if you wish to keep your old phone number. Some of my neighbours are in a similar situation whereby when requesting to switch to the recently installed fibre in our street, they have been told by their service provider that the existing copper phone line will disappear as they dont do the phone service over FTTP. This also leads to a problem closing their current contract ie Phone + Broadband and going elsewhere. Should there be exit penalties since the provider cannot give the customer the service they had originally?

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

-Richie- — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:36:17 GMT

@oldbuffer1wrote:
As far as I'm aware, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there are only three companies so far that offer a phone package (presumably as DV) integrated with FTTP, namely BT, Sky and Vodafone.

Discussing other providers goes against the forum rules but basically any provider that uses the Openreach network will stop offering PSTN, some areas that have FTTP available are in a stop/sell process where Openreach won't supply a phone service.
The likes of Virgin Media and the many Alt Nets don't use the Openreach network, so they are not impacted by the change.

@oldbuffer1wrote:
Should there be exit penalties since the provider cannot give the customer the service they had originally?

You have a broadband and telephony service, if you move from PSTN or FVA (Future Voice) to Digital Voice, then you still have the same telephony service, the contract is to provide a voice service, it doesn't specify how that's delivered, so yes early termination fees would be applicable.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

oldbuffer1 — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 15:59:17 GMT

Was not my intention to discuss other providers - purely to list them as I understood it. However, to be more specific, and to keep this hypothetical, say I have a FTTC Broadband connection with Phone Package and right now I have the option of "upgrading" to Full Fibre (Ultrafast Fibre, FTTP or whatever you like to call it) broadband. Having gone through the speed options available from my current provider I can either see no mention of a phone service, or an information panel that tells me I can have a Fibre only service - NO phone. I then look around for a provider that can give me Full Fibre plus Phone Package (ie one that integrates my existing phone service with Fibre Broadband )- try it, and such an available option you can count on one hand! I'm quite happy to switch to DV as long as my existing home setup works and I can keep my existing phone number. So having established that although my existing provider can upgrade me to FTTP at whatever whizzo speed I wish to pay for, they cant provide any phone package to go with it. As it is imperative I maintain my phone service even switching to DV, I now need to cancel the existing contract and go elsewhere, because they can no longer supply me with the service I had originally. At this point using that argument, I feel I should be able to switch to a contract with another provider without incurring any financial penalties. What does the team think?

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

licquorice — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 16:21:43 GMT

I would agree, but that is entirely up to that provider whether they see it that way or not.

You can always stick with that provider for broadband and get a third party VoIP service.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

iniltous — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 16:46:36 GMT

Digital Voice ( DV ) is the ‘brand’ name of BTs IP phone offer , it’s not a generic term for IP telephony , if other Communication Providers (CP) use ‘DV’ as the name of their equivalent product that will only confuse consumers.

Telephony isn’t a money spinner, the total number of phone calls minutes has been in ( terminal ? ) decline for years , many CP’s may look to get out of this market altogether , any customer they have still requiring a phone service could always use a third party VoIP provider if their preferred ISP will only supply broadband .

Your current internet supplier presumably isn’t BT , because BT do offer IP telephony , if your ISP doesn’t offer Telephony on their FTTP packages, your ability ( or inability ) to leave them penalty free is a discussion to be had with them , it isn’t really an issue for BT customers and therefore this BT Customer forum.

Re: FTTP Voip & BT's Forced Monopoly! (DO NOT GET DIGITAL VIOCE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR OWN ROUT

NigelB72 — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 16:49:25 GMT

As others have pointed out, the stark reality is that as mobile technology has improved, less and less homes are using fixed line phones. We've not had a home phone plugged in for nearly 9 years as we use our mobiles.