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Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:31:59 GMT

I live in an area with no mobile signal (although other parts of the same village do have some mobile connectivity) and therefore have no mobile phone (just VOIP).
Power outages are frequent so that in the event of an emergency following copper cutoff, the only way to dial 999 would be to take a five minute walk (as was already the case for a neighbour during the last four-hour outage).
I understand from Sky that "if you do not have mobile reception in your area, your provider should give you a battery back-up so you're not cut off if there is a power cut".
Could you please tell me what arrangements have been made for this by BT and how to register with BT where this will be the case.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

Keith_Beddoe — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:35:01 GMT

@AH11

Welcome to this user forum for BT Retail phone and broadband customers.

Are you a BT Retail Customer, or a Sky Customer?

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:46:15 GMT

I am a BT customer and the information came from:

https://news.sky.com/story/how-will-the-landline-phone-switch-work-and-what-do-you-need-to-do-12951213

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

36ULW — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:47:49 GMT

Yes, BT can supply Battery Back Ups for DV in the event of a Power Cut.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

gg30340 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:54:29 GMT

Even if you got a battery backup from BT, it would need to power your phone and your BT router and if you have FTTP it will also need to power the digital modem it would only last a couple of hours unless you are prepared to spend money on a more powerful Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS).

If you are having frequent power outages you should be complaining to your electricity company to get their service fixed.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 17:01:52 GMT

"In the event of a power cut" does not sound not good enough.

If there is a power cut and no VOIP or mobile phone signal, how can BT be informed of the power cut? Equally, by the time BT has delivered the battery backup in such a case, the likelihood is that the power cut will be over.

Given that:

1) my village and the local exchange is not on the Outreach list of planned works before the cutoff;
2) the address does not even appear on the drop down lists on the Open Reach site and has to be entered manually;
3) Openreach confirms that the exchange is not on its horizon;
4) There is no signal in my particular area, as confirmed by the image below which shows my road as being in the dead zone, and the fact that smart electricity meters cannot be installed for lack of signal,

surely this something that needs to be provided for in advance, not when there is a power cut.

Is BT setting up a site where people can/could register in advance of the cutoff?
5) We have had power outages almost every day this week (most of short duration but one lasting four hours)

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

gg30340 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 17:13:14 GMT

If BT were going to give you a battery back up it is supplied in advance when you have Digital Voice, it is not delivered when a power cut happens!

As stated, you and the others affected by the frequent power outages should be complaining to their electrical company.

As an aside, if you presently have a cordless phone I take it that you know it does not work in a power cut.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 17:11:57 GMT

Complaints have been made to the electricity company but have so far not elicited any changes.

Complaints have also been made about the lack of a mobile signal, including through BT and EE, but have likewise had no success. I was indeed charged for my mobile phone by BT until the end of my contract although I pointed out that I had no mobile signal so could not use it.

Surely two hours connectivity is better than none?

If BT cannot easily ascertain which areas do not have a mobil signal, should it not begin making arrangements for such areas by contacting customers or setting up a website where people can register for a battery.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

gg30340 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 17:22:24 GMT

@AH11 wrote:

Complaints have been made to the electricity company but have so far not elicited any changes. Complain to Ofgem and your local MP. Get as many people as possible t complain.

Complaints have also been made about the lack of a mobile signal, including through BT and EE, but have likewise had no success. I was indeed charged for my mobile phone by BT until the end of my contract although I pointed out that I had no mobile signal so could not use it. Did you never use it any where except in your home?

Surely two hours connectivity is better than none? Yes but only if your "emergency" happens in the first couple of hours and you have just stated that the last outage was for four hours.

If BT cannot easily ascertain which areas do not have a mobil signal, should it not begin making arrangements for such areas by contacting customers or setting up a website where people can register for a battery. Not all areas are being moved over to DV at the same time. It could be a couple of years before your area is moved so hopefully by that time your electrical company have upped their game and supply a product that is fit for service. ie no frequent power outages.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 17:55:06 GMT

Complaints have been made to the electricity company but have so far not elicited any changes. Complain to Ofgem and your local MP. Get as many people as possible t complain.

We had not thought of Ofgem but will follow that up – thank you.

Complaints have also been made about the lack of a mobile signal, including through BT and EE, but have likewise had no success. I was indeed charged for my mobile phone by BT until the end of my contract although I pointed out that I had no mobile signal so could not use it. Did you never use it any where except in your home?

Yes, from many different areas – some several hundred miles away, such as London, but the signals either do not get through or are so broken up that you cannot make sense of them.

Surely two hours connectivity is better than none? Yes but only if your "emergency" happens in the first couple of hours and you have just stated that the last outage was for four hours.

If a longer than usual cutoff happens the electricity company will normally give an estimate of when the repair will be completed. We can then ration battery usage to cover the need for phone coverage, if necessary by coming to an agreement with immediate neighbours.

If BT cannot easily ascertain which areas do not have a mobil signal, should it not begin making arrangements for such areas by contacting customers or setting up a website where people can register for a battery. Not all areas are being moved over to DV at the same time. It could be a couple of years before your area is moved so hopefully by that time your electrical company have upped their game and supply a product that is fit for service. ie no frequent power outages.

My understanding from Outreach is that all copper will be switched off by December 2025 to the whole of England, irrespective of the area.
Both BT and EE refuse to acknowledge the lack of signal although they are welcome to come and try for themselves. They are indeed continuing to sell Halo to my elderly neighbours despite the lack of signal although they are forced to take a walk if they want to use their mobile, with the end result that most of them do not even bother to charge their mobiles and therefore rely on their landline.
I would also point out that the electricity grid is unable to keep up with current demand let alone the planned switch to electricity. I gather that there is a waiting time of some ten years for new wind and solar generation sites. Improvements to a rural supply are therefore unlikely for some considerable time to come.

I therefore reiterate my request that BT consider arrangements for mobile blackspots such as mine and ensure that the information is made available to those in need and particularly the elderly.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

gg30340 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 18:13:13 GMT

All your points and concerns have already been raised on this forum. Rather than repeating them all you should use the search facility of the forum.

You should also have a read through this link.

Solved: Digital Voice FAQs - BT Community

What I would say in conclusion is that the switch is going to go ahead at some point in the future, mean while I would reiterate that your main problem is not that the change is going ahead rather that the problem is your inept electricity company and I don't understand why you and your neighbours and other village occupants put up with it. If the electrical company did there job and gave you a reliable electrical supply you would not be posting here.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

imjolly — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 18:28:59 GMT

Is your poor mobile coverage' just BT/EE what about all the other mobile providers Vodafone or 3 or O2?

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 22:11:55 GMT

I think your approach shows a lack of understanding of the true implications of the cutoff and of the power outages now threatened each winter by the grid.

Why does the copper network need to be cut off?
- Because it is no longer fit for purpose.
- The solution: to cut it off.
- Timeframe: December 2025.

Why do local electricity grids keep failing?
- Because they are no longer fit for purpose.
- The solution, to upgrade the grid.
- Timeframe: Some 15-20 years, at a minimum.
- Reason: because grid upgrades cannot keep pace with increasing electricity consumption (see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/04/uk-must-build-power-lines-faster-to-get-backlog-of-green-energy-projects-on-grid#:~:text=Currently%20windfarms%20and%20solar%20arrays,energy%20targets%2C%20according%20to%20Winser).

This is also backed up by the fact that the grid threatened power cuts last winter and is still offering incentives to people to only use electricity out of peak times and has not ruled out power cuts this winter.

Currently windfarms and solar arrays face a 10- to 15-year wait to connect to the power networks (see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/04/uk-must-build-power-lines-faster-to-get-backlog-of-green-energy-projects-on-grid#:~:text=Currently%20windfarms%20and%20solar%20arrays,energy%20targets%2C%20according%20to%20Winser).

So yes, the problem is the grid and is likely to be so for the next 10 to 20 years.

And given that, power cuts are inevitable and particularly in rural areas if the supply to urban areas is to be protected:
- Power outages mean no VOIP;
- Power outages therefore require mobile connectivity;

- No mobile signal means no connectivity of any kind;
- No connectivity means putting people's lives seriously at risk in the event of a medical or other emergency;
- Rural areas and particularly rural villages have the highest proportion of those aged 65 and over.
(See Government statistics at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1028819/Rural_population__Oct_2021.pdf);
- Rural areas are those most likely to be hit by power outages;

- Premises in rural areas have just 47% mobile coverage indoors according to the government's own statistics (see https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07069/SN07069.pdf);
- 53% of rural areas are therefore at risk in a power outage, the majority being over the age of 65;
- Those over the age of 65 are those most at risk of a medical emergency, particularly in a power outage.

The figures therefore speak for themselves.

That being the case, I reiterate that prior to the cutoff BT needs to make provision for the 53% of rural areas that do not and will not have mobile connectivity.

Or is BT prepared to wash its hands of all liability for deaths resulting from an inability of a significant proprotion of the country to contact emergency services in an emergency situation such as a power cut?

With regard to your earlier comment:
- The fact that it might be possible to use a mobile signal if one travels to another area is irrelevant if you cannot phone home from that other location because signal fragmentation on reception makes the call unintelligible.
- Nor is is relevant if an emergency call needs to be made from a home with no connectivity.
Furthermore, no thought has been given to those who cannot see well enough to operate a mobile phone.

I hope that I have now made my point a little more clearly and that BT will actually begin to consider the wider implications of leaving populations without an emergency battery.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

AH11 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 22:14:55 GMT

None of my concerns have been answered, despite what is said. It would seem that BT is just washing its hands of the problem rather than looking at the reality.

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

gg30340 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 22:57:37 GMT

@AH11 wrote:

"I think your approach shows a lack of understanding of the true implications of the cutoff and of the power outages now threatened each winter by the grid."

I fully understand the "true" implication of the cut off, probably a lot better than you apparently do.

As I said previously you should search the forum regarding it as your concerns have been well discussed and solutions both from BT and ones that you can implement yourself have been set out.

The closing of the analogue telephone system is not limited to BT. All telephone providers will also be dealing with it.

This is a FAQ link regarding the "shut off". I would suggest that you have a read through that as it points out to contact BT regarding your concerns.

Moving to Digital Voice | BT Help

Re: Copper cutoff, no mobile signal and frequent electricity outages

Lila — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 23:22:30 GMT

It is exactly this.