This topic

Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

howangleung123 — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 18:12:48 GMT

I am a BT Fibre 1 customer This is my setup
Current set Up:

1.My bufferbloat grade is 'F' in https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat although the connection is wired

2. The solution seems to be a router with SQM , so I am planning to buy a UBIQUITI ER-X Networks EdgeRouter X 5 Ports

3. I would like to confirm, do I set it up like below if I want to tackle the buffer bloat? I cannot connect the edge router and the master socket directly as the master socketing is rj11 and the edge router is expecting rj45

I would like this problem to be resolved beause when I play league of legends.
My ping frequently jumps back and forth, it starts with 20, then suddenly jumps to 40/80/400 etc....

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

WSH — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 18:22:55 GMT

It will work but it’s a bit like putting different tyres on a car and expecting the performance to improve. It still has to come through the SH2.

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

howangleung123 — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 21:00:46 GMT

What if I replace the smart hub 2 with this TP-Link 300 Mbps Wireless N USB VDSL/ADSL Modem Router,
and connect the ER-X router to the TP-LINK modem, does it help with the bufferbloat? Thanks

If yes, should I use the VDSL version or the ADSL version of the TP-Link modem?

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

pippincp — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 21:14:26 GMT

VDSL version.

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

WSH — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 21:15:23 GMT

The “wireless n” suggests the TP-Link is an older model so I would expect that to be even slower, if anything. Which you use clearly depends on whether you are on VDSL or ADSL.

The first thing you really need to do is establish where this bufferbloat is occurring. Any connection is only as fast as its slowest point. So, what is the slowest point? I assumed you’d identified it as the SH2. Are you sure the problem is not at the PC end? That would be the first place I’d look.

By the way, while that arrangement will work, the IP addressing scheme is not going to be plug and play. I take it you know that? Configuring that arrangement is a bit much for a “beginner”, if that is an accurate description. (The questions you just asked seem to suggest it is - no offence meant). If you search the site for a post entitled “3rd party router with Bt hub for digital voice“ it will explain more.

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

howangleung123 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:09:27 GMT

I did the followings with trials and errors, could someone tell me if I am doing this correctly? ( I can access the internet)
1. For TP-LINK, I connected with pppoe.
2. Turned of DCHP of BT Smart hub, I also changed the default IP address of BT smart hub
3. Now I can connect to TP-LINK with ethernet cable while my friends can connect to WIFI of the SH2. I guess now the TP-LINK serves as a modem? although it is NOT in bridge mode (tried,didn't work)

The next step:
The setup above resolves most of my bufferbloat issue, the grade is now 'A' instead of 'F' .
But when I play league of legends, I still have jitters of 1-2 ms . E.g. my ping is usually 22, then sometimes it jumps back and forth between 22-24. So I think my next step is to put the EdgeRouterX between the TP-LINK and my PC
Will the edge router X 's SQM help in this case?

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

Crimliar — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:32:26 GMT

My experience with such setups is that every extra routing device you add to a network will include its own buffers, making any reported buffer bloat worse. On xDSL a simple modem+router with QoS is the best way to alleviate buffer bloat - remembering that BB is only really an issue for gaming!

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

howangleung123 — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 00:53:59 GMT

But it does seem to work for me.
I added the edge router x as I mentioned above and turned on the SQM function.
My bufferbloat score is now 'A+' instead of just 'A'.
I can only blame this to the smart hub 2
I am upset because I need to spend £80 for these extra equipments just for the ping to be stable

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

WSH — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:39:59 GMT

The SH2 will not be able to access Digital Voice in that configuration. I rather assumed at the start the SH2 was there for the phone connection. If you don’t need Digital Voice why not just remove the SH2 altogether?

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

howangleung123 — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:24:53 GMT

I don't need digital voice.

2 days ago I did try to remove SH2,

and er-x was also not there,

so it was just 1 tp link router connected through pppoe.

1. The speed significantly droped. On ethernet I got ~15 mb. On Wifi I got aroind 3 to 4 mb. Bufferbloat grade was A

2. Then I removed TP link and put SH2 back in, speed returned to normal.

With the set up in my last post, I get good speed on both wifi and ethernet. Now TP link is for ethernet connection and SH2 is for wifi.

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

Crimliar — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:50:00 GMT

The technical terms for the network you are creating are "Mess" or "Frankenstein"!

Set the TP-Link device to bridge/modem.
Reset the SH2 to factory defaults.
Set the SH2 to use a LAN port as the WAN port (it's in the menus somewhere).
Connect the TP-Link to Master Socket and connect a cable from the correct socket on the SH2 to a LAN socket on the TP-Link.
This should work, but it should also create more lag/BufferBloat than using the SH2 directly - you are adding an extra device that buffers data.

If you use just the TP-Link modem/router you'll need it's WAN configuration to be in PPPoE mode, VLAN:101, username bthomehub@btbroadband.com and Password: BT
That should work though you'll lose Digital Voice.
You can then try the QoS options on the TP-Link. The Bufferbloat tests though are artificial, they constantly max out the connection and look for buffering, not every connection is going to get top scores every time, and if your games aren't maxing out the connection it may all be completely irrelevant! As for lag jitter of 1-2 ms, that's par for the course, we all get some jitter!

*My own router reports NTP drift in nanoseconds, there are people on the related forums who worry about drifts of 5+ nanoseconds, that's 0.000000005 of a second (it seriously not even close to a problem)! Welcome to reality!

Re: Can i use the edge router x with the BT smart hub 2 to improve bufferbloat (Grade F)?

WSH — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 10:38:44 GMT

If memory serves from my science days, the fastest human reaction times about 0.08 sec