This topic

900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:46:16 GMT

OK moved house from 300mbs smart hub 2, was perfect connection all the time.
Now I have the 900mb package with a nokia modem and the new Hub that gives an EE-wifi address.

Wifi was topping out at 20Mbps. Constantly drops. Engineer found the installer bent the cable, replaced that.
Wifi still slow as hell. Next engineer things it's intereference, changes bands on hub and tells me to upgrade to a wifi 6 router if I want to use the fibre to full potential.

So now I have a TP-Link Wifi 6 AX3000 Mbps plugged into the BT Hub and I am using a TP-Link AC1300 high gain MU-MIMO wifi dongle.
Dongle showing 866Mbps link speed. Router showing 1000mbps speed.
Internet speed tests 220-300mbps....?

I have checked it's using 5ghz etc. Can't work out why I'm not getting the full speed possible.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

ptrduffy — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 13:43:46 GMT

The first thing to check is that you're getting the 900 Mb/s speed on your fibre. You can do this on the MyBT app on your phone, or with a laptop connected to the router by a Cat 5e or better ethernet cable (although I think the MyBT app will only work with the BT Hub).

Assuming that shows the fibre is delivering full speed, then you know the problem is 'just' your WiFi. Unfortunately that's the hardest thing to optimise as it depends on so many parameters. Best starting point is to get a WiFi analyser app on your phone and switching your router to the least busy channel(s).

To be honest, the 220 - 300 Mb/s you're seeing is pretty good in my experience, and if you want to do something that needs more (e.g. large game downloads) then you're better off with an ethernet cable.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 14:25:08 GMT

Alas I have solved the issue.

Turns out the high gain dongle isn't Wifi 6, which I discovered in trying to switch the band to 802.11ax.

Have ordered a wifi 6 dongle now. Should have 866 Mb/s by tomorrow 😄

/edit, should also add that disabling wifi on the EE BT hub whatever it's called, has dramatically improved the connection. Customer service offered to send me a Smart hub 2 again, because in their own words "it's much stronger against interference than the new ones"

If I could remove the hub from the daisy chain completely I would but the nokia modem doesn't have a phone jack so I can't use my landline unless I have the hub plugged in 🙄

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 14:37:13 GMT

Please dont expect 866Mbps ahead of time, it is very hard to achieve unless the conditions are perfect and you are right near an AP. You will likely need to use 80Mhz which will open you up to more interference.

In my home after much tweaking, it is possible to get 850Mbps using Unifi gear but actually 600-700Mbps is more often the result, also if you want to see the absolute max WIFI performance you need a local speed test server, build an Openspeed Test Server either on a Raspberry Pi or something.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

WSH — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 14:39:24 GMT

Glad to hear it but if you want reliable performance, especially at those sorts of speeds, you really need to grasp the nettle and put cat 6 cables in.

To be fair, they’ve made tremendous strides with wireless over the last 10 years but any techie will tell you it is still second rate. ISPs like it because it is quick and cheap for them to provide, not because it is any good.

I would take the speed figure quoted with a pinch of salt. For example, did you know that that 866Mb/s is almost certainly being quoted as 433 send plus 433 receive? Wireless can’t do both at the same time. It has to alternate between sending for a period and listening for a reply. Wires can do both at the same time, so 1Gb/s is 1Gb send and 1Gb receive. There are a lot of other factors in play with wireless as well, but I’ve said enough.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 14:48:17 GMT

Cat5e is perfectly fine for break neck WIFI speeds, my setup is all 2.5Gb switches which we all know is rock solid over Cat5e. Now a 2.5Gb network is going to give you more than enough headroom for WIFI 6 top speeds.

Indeed WIFI is half duplex.

If I was doing a new install i'd put Cat 6 in but if you have Cat5e home wiring then get on the 2.5Gb train because its great.

Anyway, other than that, this dude isnt getting 866Mbps tomorrow and this could lead him down an expensive wormhole like I did. Like I said, if you want to chase dizzy wifi highs then you need a local speed test server and not using internet ones.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 14:57:06 GMT

The new dongle is 1200 down 540 up. The 866 link speed is what my new router is sending out and windows is recognising it but my current dongle can't process wifi 6 protcol so it's topping out at 300Mb/s by not using the correct band. very consistently 300Mb/s though it's very nice for a laptop.

I know I can do much better with a hardline but I am on a mission to get full value of my fibre with a wireless connection. I only recently moved so I'll install some lines when I'm not acheing from the renovation works anymore

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

WSH — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:01:51 GMT

@naylor2006 Have to agree. 5e should do the job but if it's a new install cat 6 has more future proofing.

5e is only going to be able to handle 2.5Gb at short distances, with good quality cable and a good install. Then again, domestic installations are short distances <50m. Unofficially, cat 6 can cope with up to 10Gb/s at 55m, so better for a new install.

Wi-Fi 6 was rumoured to be full duplex but it never happened, as far as I know. Wi-Fi 7 is in prep and said to be full duplex, using two different frequencies, but that may turn out to be urban myth again.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:01:02 GMT

Those are theoretical max numbers.

Link speed also is not the speed you can expect, its a mild indication, my iPhone says link speed is 1200/1200 sometimes, but it will never get much past 850.

Hey look if you get 866Mbps on a speed test then more power to you, come back prove me wrong 🙂

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:01:17 GMT

That sounds realistic, I'll let you know what I achieve.
I am currently running the 5ghz on 160Mhz and it's been crystal clear, I've now optimized my software for the speed. Fingers crossed it works as planned.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

WSH — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:03:51 GMT

Most likely problem is interference or the walls are better in the new house. I’d try it on different channels, like 40, 44 and 48. The whole world and his dog are using 36. (Some of the higher channels can be a problem for other reasons but if you can select them, then give them a try).

5GHz is also far worse at penetrating walls than 2.4GHz. That’s good, in-so-far-as you’ve less chance of picking up interference from the neighbour but bad if you want to pick it up two rooms away. (Even in a new build, the plasterboard is now foil backed. Terrible for Wi-Fi. And old houses, well they’re just solid, full stop).

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:06:22 GMT

Exactly thats the point, in a residential situation which most of us are, you're gonna be fine and youre definitely gonna be fine for WIFI. Other benefit of Cat5e besides price is the Cat6 stuff you really want is a little harder to work with from a malleable point of view. Also dont get STP cables unless you know what you're doing, UTP is fine.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

WSH — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:13:15 GMT

Cat 6 is not STP, 6A is.

The last 6A I installed was like 13A mains flex but cat 6 is little stiffer than 5e.

Edit: ...Anyway, I'm off for a beer. See you later.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:11:43 GMT

If you are using 160Mhz I wouldnt, this bonds 8 channels together and will not perform faster in the real world than 80Mhz which is only bonding 4 channels.

You might wanna take a look at this:

Using 160Mhz never really makes an sense in a real world setup, it bonds channels 36-48 or 100-128. 80Mhz is still problematic but a better compromise.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:14:01 GMT

I was kinda pointing to the fact that you cant get Cat5e STP or UTP and just to avoid STP unless you have the appropriate equipment.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:40:08 GMT

The new router has about 200 DFS bands available that I'll need to play with. Thanks for that infographic though, very handy.

I will keep people updated on what I manage via what settings. I have good confidence in the theoretical numbers for now. It really looks like the technology took a serious leap in ability and affordability since I last looked a couple years ago.

It's quite a tightly packed new build estate so i'm wondering how many people are gonna suffer interference from my broadcast 😅

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:49:52 GMT

DFS channels are there in that image I shared, I use some DFS channels but they hard to get right.

To be honest other people are unlikely to suffer your interference because they probably don’t care about 300+ Mbps, it’ll be you who suffer there’s whilst you try to reach 600+!

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 16:11:05 GMT

Then suffer I must! If it's possible I'll work it out. If it's not I'll stare upwards and grumble a bit.

I remember being excited by the prospect of Pre-N whilst using my neighbours WEP network.
Why wouldn't you want more than 300Mb/s on wireless? I want my downloads to blister my eyes.
Haven't paid any attention for a decade now I'm excited again 😁

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

naylor2006 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 18:24:45 GMT

Well im just speaking for the majority of people who have a few devices at home and arent worried about top speed, for the most part latency is the biggest concern, for gaming and such.

Indeed getting 900Mbps from BT spurred me on but it wasnt as easy as just buying good WIFI gear and this equals 900Mbps WIFI speeds, the issue is far more nuanced and to achieve over 700Mbps in every room in my house I installed an AP per room all connected to a backend 2.5Gbit network, all on channels that would not overlap whilst using 80Mhz channels, AP's on channels that would overlap I would need to ensure were far enough away from one another as not to interfere. There isnt enough normal channels to use on 80Mhz if you have many AP's where their range overlaps, so I had to experiment with DFS channels, FWIW the most reliable DFS channel is 100, if you are interested in the others I use let me know.

With a mix of DFS and normal channels its possible eventually in my house to avoid interference, if you have one AP only you probably could get away with 160Mhz but you would get interference from next door most likely on the lower of the two channels.

Anyway, enjoy the journey my friend.

Re: 900MB full fibre wireless lack luster

Troubled_Talent — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 13:08:24 GMT

It seems you will be suprised by my results 😁
Pretty much plug and play. I have the router set to choose the bands automatically and given permission for it to use DFS channels of it's own accord.

Over 80mhz I get 340 down 100 up. Linkspeed 556

When I turn the router up to 160mhz I get linkspeed 1201 and an astonishing 760 down and 100 up!

Also the TP-link Archer TX20UH has the added benefit of looking identical to a star trek communicator 😅

I'm happy to leave it there for now. I was lucky to get 200mb/s via the BT hub and it would drop all the time. For about £150 I've more than trippled my wireless speed.