This topic

BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 09:01:20 GMT

Hi,

I hope you can help as I am struggling with BT and Openreach on this very strange problem.

I have a BT Hub 2 and when I try to access the 192.168.1.254 address I access my neighbours EE Hub, yes I know weird.

I am connected to the Wi-Fi SSID of my BT Hub 2 box and use the passphrase for that connection. for my internet access.

BT have sent a Qube engineer who replaced the BT Hub 2 and it was doing exactly the same thing, showing the EE hub details and not the BT Hub 2 details.

He then went away scratching his head and saying it was an Openreach issue.

Openreach appeared and said that all there checks showed that the circuit was good and that the problem was BT's.

BT then sent a second Openreach engineer who said that the ONT serial numbers were mis-matched but this was at BT CP's end and not Openreach.

Now the even stranger test that I conducted has me flummoxed.

If I connect a laptop to the my BT 2 hub over a network cable, and I disable the Wi-Fi adapter on the laptop, and I remove the WAN cable from the hub. I still have internet access. My VoIP service says it cannot find a signal, but my Hub can.

If I power off my Hub then I lose internet connectivity.

So the Hub is still active even though Wi-Fi and the physical internet connection has been removed. How can that be?

Nothing has changed in my home but my neighbour has recently been forced to move to EE as they can no longer sign-up for a BT account service. I suspect that this issue has happened since the changeover from BT to EE.

Note: If I power off my neighbours EE hub, then I am able to access the BT hub manager via the 192.168.1.254 and it is my hub. But as soon as the EE hub is powered back on then we start from square one.

Issues: slow/sluggish internet access, microsoft teams on mobile phone is not reacting the same as it does on a 4G/5G network. Other applications on mobile devices can be slow to respond. Videos are slow to load or sometimes fail with a message that the media type is invalid, even though it loads after several re-attempts.

Please help!!

Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

ptrduffy — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 09:53:06 GMT

That does sound very strange.

If I connect a laptop to the my BT 2 hub over a network cable, and I disable the Wi-Fi adapter on the laptop, and I remove the WAN cable from the hub. I still have internet access.

So, in this case it seems clear that your laptop cannot be accessing the internet via your Hub - if you power down your Hub, do you still get internet access?

The only thing I can think of is that your laptop has a Bluetooth connection to a device (e.g. a mobile phone) that is in turn connected to your neighbour's WiFi, and that is how you are getting internet access. This would also account for the slow connection speed, and 192.168.1.254 accessing your neighbour's hub admin. You could rule this out by turning off Bluetooth on your laptop.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 10:54:31 GMT

Hi ptrduffy,

Thank you for your comment. I can confirm that Bluetooth is disabled as well as Wi-Fi on the laptop. If I switch off my BT Hub 2 device then I lose internet connection (as I would expect), but if I have the BT Hub 2 on and I am cabled to a port on the back of the hub via RJ45 and I remove the RJ45 lead from the WAN port then I still have internet access. My BT VoIP phone however shows that there is no connection available.

It sounds like my internet service and my phone service are separate. This was not happening before my neighbours were forced to move to an EE account as they are no longer supplying BT accounts for their customers.

I'd really like to get your thoughts on this as it's driving me bonkers. It's got to be a mess up with the fibre connections or that someone has spliced my connection in to my next door neighbours line but left my VoIP service alone. Is that even possible? I would have thought the fibre service was the same for both Internet and VoIP.

Thanks again for contributing. Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 11:01:12 GMT

Without analysing all you've posted, my first thought is do you have a powerline device connected to the SH2? It's not unheard of for them to talk to a neighbours powerline device & so connect to their network.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

tonysmini018 — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 11:48:37 GMT

What connections do you have on your laptop?
Do you have anything else set up as “connect automatically” other than your router?

MyBT or BT-Wi-Fi maybe?

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

licquorice — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 14:39:45 GMT

Do either you or your neighbour have a hybrid connect device? That would explain the slow connectivity when physical connectivity to your hub is removed.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 15:11:20 GMT

Hi rbz5416,

I do have two powerlines supplied by BT which are TP Link devices. I've not heard that they could cause bleed through. I will look to disable them later and confirm whether this fixes the issue. It does sound like a distinct possibility though.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute to this thread.

Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 15:12:39 GMT

Hi tonysmini018,

No there are no other connections other than a coupe of TP-Link powerline adapters. Which are a recent addition.

Thanks, Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 15:13:27 GMT

Hi Distinguished Sage,

No we do not have those types of devices.

Thanks, Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

licquorice — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 15:32:54 GMT

If your are on the same mains phase as your neighbour, it is quite possible the powerline adapters are the problem.

Phases normally cycle between houses so an immediate neighbour isn't normally on the same phase but it can happen.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 20:22:39 GMT

@CliveH1969

"Note: If I power off my neighbours EE hub, then I am able to access the BT hub manager via the 192.168.1.254 and it is my hub. But as soon as the EE hub is powered back on then we start from square one."

I have seen something similar to this in a professional capacity:

A few years ago, I used to work in BT's TV Outside Broadcast department. We had equipment installed at unmanned sites across the country, but for economics, not every site was permanently equipped - some kit was moved between venues as required.

Each venue had it's own allocated IP address on the BT network, so when the Field engineers moved equipment around they had to change the IP address before connecting up at the new venue. If they inputted the wrong IP address, it was possible that two different venues both had equipment on them that had the same IP address programmed in. In the Control,we could only interrogate the equipment by connecting to the internal BT network and inputting the relevant IP address for the venue we wanted to look at. If two venues had the same IP, we saw similar effects to what you describe - until the IP address error was corrected.

You also said:

"BT then sent a second Openreach engineer who said that the ONT serial numbers were mis-matched but this was at BT CP's end and not Openreach."

General question to other forum members:

Is it possible that BT/EE have allocated the same IP address to both the OP and his neighbour?

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

licquorice — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 20:32:28 GMT

No, but with fttp, all ONTs on a pon receive all 32 channels of data and the correct channel only is then forwarded to the router in accordance with the correct serial number. The IP address is dynamic and not a fixed IP.

However, that doesn't explain the connectivity with no input to the hub WAN.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 05:36:51 GMT

Hi rbz5416,

I have removed the network cable from the main powerline and also from the hub and this now enables me to reach my BT hub manager on 192.168.1.254 and also I now receive no internet connection if I remove the WAN cable from the hub. I'm still checking a few other things and I've also asked my neighbour to monitor and let me know if their situation has improved. I will report back in a few days time on this.

So far it looks like you are correct and the powerlines for some reason were bleeding through.

I've also been told that my neighbours have wireless powerlines that they connected to their hub using WPS.

It is strange as the previous powerlines that I had bought worked no problem (until one failed) and that the ones supplied by BT are either faulty or too powerful. The only change that I can see it that when I installed the original ones the main one was plugged in to an extension block and not directly in to the wall outlet.

I'm going to ask if BT can send me a new pair of powerlines today as well.

Thanks again for helping out with this problem, it is appreciated.

Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 05:40:24 GMT

Hi Paul608085,
Thank you for contributing to my post. I think we have it sussed and looks to be BT supplied powerlines that are causing the issue. I am still going through some final tests and will let everyone know if this is the cause shortly. I am pretty convinced that it is however.
Many thanks, Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

tonysmini018 — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 05:43:32 GMT

Pop up a picture of your power lines.

This is definitely an odd one, but I’m glad it seems to be sorted.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

Keith_Beddoe — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 05:48:53 GMT

@CliveH1969

The powerline adapters are encrypted, so its unfortunate that you both ended up with the same code.

All you need to do is to factory reset yours, then set them up again, when your neighbour`s ones are powered down. Once that is done, and yours are working, then your neighbour can power theirs back up again. It highly unlikely you will both end up with the same encryption code.

Its possible when you originally set yours up, they configured themselves to your neighbours system.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

CliveH1969 — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:22:49 GMT

@Keith_Beddoe

the powerlines are using cables they are not wireless, so the setup is basically plug each end in run a cable from the main one to the hub and at the other end run the cable from that one in to a device or switch. Which I am using a Gigabit switch to supply internet to a couple of devices that do not have wifi capability.

Clive.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:40:45 GMT

@CliveH1969

"the powerlines are using cables they are not wireless,"

Powerline adapters work by sending radio frequency signals using the mains cabling as a transmission line.

Re: BT Fibre to the premises problem

Keith_Beddoe — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:47:09 GMT

@CliveH1969

They are not wireless, they work by transmitting radio frequencies along the main wiring, usually in the range 8-30Mhz.

The data is encrypted so that the receiver has to match the same encryption key, for it to be decoded.

The encryption key is initialised when the units are first pained up, or after a factory reset. If the pairing button is pressed, the units will attempt to connect. However if there is another pair of adapters detected on the mains wiring, even next door, then it will attempt to connect to that one, especially if they are on the same mains phase, or the wiring is in close proximity.

Even if yours are paired, then next door pressing their pairing button, may cause theirs to connect to yours.

Its quite an insecure method, and issues like this have been reported before on this forum.