This topic

What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sat, 17 Aug 2024 23:40:21 GMT

I am unfortunately suffering from severe bufferbloat and whenever the router is under load (distance, wired, wireless, me being the only using the internet or more people, does not matter) my latency increases all they way to 1200ms or more. This happens randomly and it has been happening almost every day.

I have been adviced by other communities to buy routers such as a netgear or a beryl ax gl-mt3000 which has OpenWRT, which I have been told this can significantly reduce bufferbloat.

However, I have noticed that it seems that I need a modem and I have no idea which should I get. The BT Smart Hub 2 does not seem to have a bridged/modem option so I am stuck here. I have looked at a couple modems and they are as twice as expensive as the router itself so I am a bit confused here.

https://imgur.com/a/WIzeGyx

https://imgur.com/a/Z6Zx6xv

Those are my tests results. Max speeds are 70 download 18 upload. No fibre available, using FTTC. BT determined that because I am still getting my guaranteed speeds (which is not stable at all, please check https://imgur.com/a/rr2V3AS ) I cannot get an engineer. I have raised a complaint on my account but it probably will not do much. I am quite disappointed but I can't stand having 1000ms during my gaming sessions. Any advice will be appreciated.

Edit: Forgot to mention I use ethernet over powerline (and no, i cannot run ethernet through walls, this is the only option) and I ruled it out as the cause because I also get buffering while watching a twitch stream both in 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz on my phone.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 00:42:13 GMT

After further research I have encountered an affordable option which is the Huawei HG612. Would this be good enough?

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

imjolly — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 06:57:34 GMT

if you use your existing landline phone have you been moved to digital voice? if you use DV then you must connect the BT SH2 as first in line to modem/ONT

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

licquorice — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 07:13:43 GMT

If you don't need voice, the HG612 will be fine, however, why not consider a combined VDSL modem/router rather than a pure router.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

iniltous — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 07:51:40 GMT

I suspect that if you continue to use powerline adapters then upgrading the router will have no effect but if you do change the router get one with better WiFi capabilities and upgrade your PC WiFi at the same time , otherwise you will be plugging your new router into your existing powerline adapters that you presumably have not eliminated as the cause of the issue .
Even if it’s not a long term solution, buy a long ( 15-25m ) Ethernet cable ( or however long is needed ) and even if it’s only temporary, run through doorways and up stairs etc , it will prove or disprove the powerline adapters as the cause of your issues , otherwise you risk spending hundreds of ££’s for no reason at all .

FWIW , no ISP would concern themselves with your issue while you continue to use equipment ( powerline adapters ) and at least remove them from the setup during a test .

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Edinburgh-wg — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 09:06:27 GMT

Your download speed seems to fluctuate a lot and having a 1,000ms ping is unacceptable.

Powerline adapters can have a negative effect on VDSL signal, although Devolo ones perform much better than any other.

You should perform some tests without powerline adapters - not just a one-off test in terms of twitch stream - and for a couple of days.

Once you're satisfied that it's not powerline adapters, you should ask for a test on your line.

I don't think changing modems will improve your situation as the issue is likely to be elsewhere.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 11:42:23 GMT

Hi, I am not getting a VDSL router because I’d like the router to have openwrt built in or something of the sort to reduce buffebloat, and the ones I got recommended need a modem

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 11:49:02 GMT

Unfortunately powerline is 100% not the issue. I have connected my laptop directly to the router and did the bufferbloat test and still got an F with 800ms of increased latency under load.
https://imgur.com/a/qD8CSoH

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 11:50:20 GMT

Yes hello, here’s the test on a direct Ethernet connection to the router: https://imgur.com/a/qD8CSoH
Powerlines are 100% not the issue. I have asked for tests but to BT being above guaranteed speed = perfectly fine with 0 issues.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 11:51:33 GMT

I have no idea if I have Digital Voice but I think I remember getting a letter, not sure. I do not have a landline and don’t use it at all.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

michaelkenward — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 14:55:12 GMT

@licquoricewrote:
If you don't need voice, the HG612 will be fine, however, why not consider a combined VDSL modem/router rather than a pure router.

The view among experienced users is that combined modem/routers are not as good as separate devices.

A standalone router will invariably give you a wider choice of features. For example, "combo" devices don't do Mesh networking.

The other factor is that most brands gave up on DSL devices some time ago. There hasn't been anything from Netgear, for example, in years. Standalone DSL have also gone the way of the dodo.

A BT/OpenReach linesman once confided that BT had instructed ISPs to issue combo devices. They are easier to control and manage at the ISP end.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

TimCurtis — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 15:16:02 GMT

@Anthony813

I've been using an Asus DSL-AC68U for years now as a modem/router and recently just as a router (got full fibre😊).

Works very well with my BT FF500 and with an iPhone 11 I can get around 400Mbps of the 500 available.

It's still getting firmware updates and is still a great piece of kit. It's feature list is pretty impressive and good examples can be picked up on ebay for very sensible prices < £40.

Worth a punt I'd say.

And it can form the basis of an Asus AiMesh setup.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

michaelkenward — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 15:43:32 GMT

Can you explain why you want a new modem? The problem seems to be with your router.

You are on the right track looking for a separate modem that can take a better router. But as you have probably discovered these are few and far between. Netgear's late and lamented DM200 does crop up on second hand sites at reasonable prices, but you don't need one. Stick with the HH2.

Which brings is to this comment:

@Anthony813wrote:
The BT Smart Hub 2 does not seem to have a bridged/modem option so I am stuck

You are right in your understanding of the HH2, but you don't need bridge mode to add a better router to the device. And as @imjolly points out, when/if BT forces digital voice on you, you are stuffed if you have a separate third party modem.

My solution is to use the HH2 and to put whatever router you went to use into the DMZ of the HH2. It takes a bit of faffing around but works just fine.

The trick is not to let the HH2 squat on its preferred IP address for your network. That is likely to clash with any other router that you buy. They all like to use the same IP defaults.

Here's what I did with the local IP address:

Then I connected my Netgear router and let it connect to the HH2 to see what IP address the HH2 assigned to it:

Then into the Firewall Configuration of the HH2. Turn on the DMZ and insert the router's IP address there.

The Netgear router should be on its own default IP address 192.168.1.1.

You can use a browser to get to that address and manage the router. You can get into the HH2 on its IP address, the one you gave it.

Those IP addresses are just my preference. If you don't like those, pick your own options.

I did all this a while back and may be a bit confused abut the order of doing things. You may have to restart the network in the usual order at various stages:

Turn off and unplug modem.
Turn off router and computers.
Plug in and turn it on modem. Wait 2 minutes.
Turn on router and wait 2 minutes.
Turn on computers.

You might be able to skip some of those later stages.

By the way, I don't agree with the comments from @iniltous about Powerline devices. At DSL speeds they are fine. I use them for wired backhaul of a Mesh system and to connect smart TV devices. I haven't tried them for gaming but reports elsewhere suggest that with the right plugs Powerline is better than wifi. More reliable, easier to setup and as fast as wifi with a DSL connection.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 16:31:43 GMT

So this basically makes my smart hub act as a modem and forwards everything to my new router?

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

licquorice — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 16:38:17 GMT

No, it's still routing and natting and operating in the IP layer, but it's not doing the heavy lifting.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 16:38:38 GMT

The Asus DSL-AC68U is an interesting choice, will definitely keep it in mind

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

michaelkenward — Sun, 18 Aug 2024 20:32:38 GMT

Indeed.

The key point is that you don't get two routers fighting each other. And you can use a "grown up" router. You could even buy a fancy gaming router.

It might help to also turn off the WiFi from the BT box.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Crimliar — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 19:00:57 GMT

Has anyone here actually looked up what bufferbloat is, and what causes it(saturating the buffers of routers with too large a buffer for ASDL/VDSL/slow connections)? I only bring this up, because if the cause isn't bufferbloat, changes to modem & router are not going to be the solution.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

michaelkenward — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 21:10:59 GMT

Great question.

What symptoms does @Anthony813 see that leads them to that conclusion?

Start with the observed problem rather than some perceived answer that might fix it.

Re: What modem can I get to replace my BT Router?

Anthony813 — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:26:04 GMT

Extreme latency increase (1000ms) when under load, especially the upload.