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BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 18:10:28 GMT

I have a BT TV Pro box, connected to a Yamaha HTR-2071 AV receiver and a Samsung QE50Q80 series TV. Also a Sony 4K Blu-Ray player. Easier to start with what works as expected, then move onto what doesn't.

The TV and receiver are both connected via their respective eARC HDMI sockets and an appropriate cable. The BT Box and the Blu-Ray are connected to the receiver's HDMI inputs.

If I turn on the TV using its own remote, the receiver turns on, the receiver sets itself to the correct HDMI input and the TV input source sets itself to the receiver's HDMI connection and I get live TV, as expected. If I turn off the TV, the receiver turns off.

If I turn on the Blu-Ray player with its own remote, the receiver turns on, then the TV turns on, and the source is set correctly on TV and receiver. The Blu-Ray home screen is displayed. If I turn off the TV with its own remote, the receiver and the Blu-Ray player both turn off.

The above seems to suggest that the TV, receiver, Blu-Ray player and leads are all working correctly.

If I turn on the BT TV Pro box with its own remote, the result is inconsistent and depends on the order in which the other devices were last turned off, and a specific sequence of turn-off operations is needed to, and then only sometimes, ensure that the correct input source is selected on the TV when it is next switched on.

1) When it works properly, maybe 50% of times, I turn on the BT TV box, the receiver turns on and its display always indicates that the receiver's correct HDMI input is selected. The TV turns on and the correct HDMI source is selected, but there's a few seconds delay.

2) The other 50% of times, the the receiver always works as above, but the TV does not switch to the receiver's HDMI input. A blank screen with a "Source" button and some hints is displayed. Selecting the Source button with the TV remote displays the home screen with the source options, with the receiver's HDMI inout already selected, but apparently not active. Attempting to change the source to the receiver with the TV remote doesn't work, the input source doesn't change.

If I turn off either the TV or the BT box with their own remote, only the 1 device turns off and the other 2 remain on.

3) In order to avoid, or at least minimise, the occurence of (2) above, I have to remember to do the following in the correct order. Turn off the BT TV box with its remote, use the TV remote to set the input source to live TV, then turn off the TV. The receiver then turns off automatically.

If I do all that, it might work as expected next time I turn on the BT TV Box, or it might not. Often I have to repeat the turn-off sequence above several times.

Given that everything works normally with the Blu-Ray player, that seems to suggest that the issue is with the BT TV box. Anyone else having this issue?

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

ozsat — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:18:03 GMT

I have a HTR-2071 too and have found it occasionally seems to have issues switching some devices on or off. All four HDMI ports are in use with 4K kit - one of them is a Box Pro and another is a Sony blu-ray player.

It is only occasional and can work for days with a problem, but once it happens it seems to be regular until I do a mains reboot of the Yamaha.

Actually have to power off at the mains for 10-15 seconds - as the standby option does seem to resolve it.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

Midnight_Voice — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:23:00 GMT

@davecm

I take it the ‘appropriate cable’ for eARC is High Speed (or better) with Ethernet?

I have a DTR-T4000 YouView box in HDMI 2 on my LG GX TV, with eARC from TV HDMI 3 to LG GX soundbar

The soundbar has one HDMI In, besides the eARC/HDMI Out, which has my UHD BluRay player plugged into it. (This setup is chosen because the soundbar handles DTS which the TV doesn’t).

There’s a Roku on HDMI 1 and a Firestick (presently) on HDMI 4.

All is well, in every case except when I turn on the YouView box first.

What should happen is that the TV should come on set to the correct HDMI input, and the soundbar should come on set to eARC. Which the Roku and Firestick both do.

What does happen is that the soundbar turns on slightly before the TV does, goes to HDMI In not eARC. Then the TV turns on, set to the YouView HDMI input momentarily, but because the soundbar has come on HDMI In, this wakes the UHD player, which in turn causes the soundbar to switch the TV to HDMI 3 and show the menu for the UHD player.

Such are the vagaries of CEC that I have no idea quite what is going wrong where, and/or which devices are behaving correctly and which not.

Accordingly, I never turn on the YouView box first (except by accident). If I put the TV on first, the soundbar comes on eARC like it should, and when I turn the YouView box on, the TV switches to that input, without affecting anything else.

Your problem sounds similar, except things sometimes work OK for you, and for me, never.

I suspect the YouView box is putting out a broadcast CEC ‘turn on’ instead of one targeted at a single upstream device; you then get a race condition between all your devices, which fight to be the arbiter of CEC control, and, as you have seen, which one wins depends on which ones were on last.

”Doctor, it hurts when I do this”.
“Don’t do it then”.

😛

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 07:57:44 GMT

It's not just me then 😀
Your set-up is roughly the same as mine.

I will try powering off the receiver to see if that makes a difference.

Does the Blu-Ray player interact correctly, as mine does? Suggesting the issue is the TV box, not the receiver.

I could also try a different HDMI lead from receiver to TV box, but I'm using the one supplied with it at the moment.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

ozsat — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:06:55 GMT

Both my Box Pro and Bluray boxes seem to work fine - until everything stops switching correctly. Then time for a mains reboot of the HTR2071

@davecmwrote:
It's not just me then 😀
Your set-up is roughly the same as mine.
I will try powering off the receiver to see if that makes a difference.

Does the Blu-Ray player interact correctly, as mine does? Suggesting the issue is the TV box, not the receiver.
I could also try a different HDMI lead from receiver to TV box, but I'm using the one supplied with it at the moment.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:40:33 GMT

This actually isnt anything to do with eARC though right, you arent using audio returning to the AV from the TV...your devices are connected to the AV first and then audio comes from the AV to the speakers you have and then video goes to the TV via one link? Have I got that right?

I was gonna do the usual thing I do and say "stop using eARC" then me and @Midnight_Voice will get into it again 🙂

Actually I do have similar behavior and always power things on in a certain way and power them off to avoid issues, yes for me it seems the EETV Box isnt as reliable but actually part of the blame is the Apple TV 4K I also have....and ive switched off CEC type sync on my PS5 because a 3rd device in the mix which is used way less than the other two was just issues not worth worrying about, also only I use the PS5, no one else does. Most of the time we are ensuring things work for other people, because, for me at least, other people in my family will never remember how to recover from a HDMI storm resulting in devastation...

Anyway...

I have an LG C3, Denon AV, Apple TV4K and EETV.

ATV goes into HDMI 1 and EETV into HDMI 2 on the Denon, then output from the Denon goes to HDMI 1 on the TV, no other HDMI's go to the TV. ARC is disabled everywhere, even on devices in boxes in my attic, just in case.

I always power on the ATV first, this powers on the AV and TV and everything is great, EE TV box stays off. If I want to watch EETV at this point I power on the EETV with its own remote (actually I used a 3rd party but nm) and this changes the source on the AVR, the TV doesnt give a **bleep** because its still getting only one HDMI as the AVR as switched. All good! To power off I power off the EETV (does not power off the AVR or TV, never does), pickup the Apple TV remote, hit any button and the AVR changes back to Apple TV input which displays on the TV, then I power off the Apple TV and the TV and AVR click off.

Problems occur varying in results when I power on the EETV first when nothing else is on, Power on the EETV, AVR and TV come on great, but also the Apple TV comes on as a result of one of the other devices I expect, and because it comes on slightly after the initial EETV boot up then the source switches back to Apple TV, usually can press a button on the EETV remote and it will go back but its worst case scenario for some members of my family.

There are other scenarios I wont bore you with but I think all these different devices trying to work together in harmony just ask for trouble sometimes and to have a perfect setup is tricky, for me I never want the AVR remote out, I only want folks to use the ATV and EETV remotes, if the AVR remote has to come out then I know theres trouble.

Not overly sure how helpful this post is but having used AVR's for so long I can honestly say that no one setup ive had over the years has always been perfect. The most annoying one is the PS5, which is why ive switched that off completely, I mean its CEC type stuff.

I probably could solve this by stopping the ATV from turning on when other devices turn on but it seems not possible, that thing is so thirsty for attention, whats worse is that during large FIFA sessions and the ATV would power off due to its own power saving settings it would power everything off during a game, easily solved by disabling any sort of inactivity power setting, but still, youre not the only device in the room btw.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:53:31 GMT

Thanks for your reply.

When I moved into my house in 2013, I had 2 long HDMI cables installed by drilling through the chimney breast, behind the TV, feeding the wires down into a fake fireplace and via some trunking to the furniture unit in the adjacent alcove, where the other devices are situated. I don't actually know what spec the cables are, but I asked the installer to make sure they were future-proof as far as possible. Not sure if there's a way to check.

One cable was originally connected to the previous Humax BT Youview box, and the other a spare in case I bought additional devices.

I got the Yamaha receiver and the Sagemcom BT TV Pro box around the same time, so everything is now plugged into that, and one of the long HDMI cables is connected to eARC on TV and receiver.

I'm guessing the cable to the TV should be ok, as the Blu-Ray player, receiver and TV interact normally and it plays in 4K with correct surround sound.

I could test with a new cable from receiver to TV, bypassing the ones in the wall.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:04:24 GMT

It probably isnt cables, if you cables werent up to spec you'd be seeing different issues in my opinion, like no signal at all or lack of HDR at high resolutions or frame rates.

Its not totally out of the question I guess as I just googled HDMI 2.0 which came out in late 2013 so maybe you have 1.4 going to the TV from the AV, im just not sure how much that would effect the issue you are having.

Recently I changed mine to cope with 4K+HDR+120Hz, also resulted in a change of AVR also to pass that through from the PS5, you need the 48Gbps cables for that (actually the PS5 does not operate all the way to 48). I choose to just swap all of my cables for 48Gbps, totally pointless for the Apple TV and EETV but Amazon basics cables are so good for the price.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:06:41 GMT

Thanks for the detailed reply, which basically says you have the same issues as me, the TV box misbehaves and we both have to live with them🤣

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:16:25 GMT

I had the weirded issue like 15 years ago where enabling LG's Simplink or whatever it was cause at the time cause audio delay on my Sky Box.

It took me around 6 months to figure it out, the two things wouldnt be related right....in fact back then I didnt use CEC at all, I would have an all in one remote which allowed you to switch AV source from the same remote that would let you control your other devices as well. Sky even came over to change the box.

Sky was using its Optical Out to send audio to my surround system I had then and its HDMI output when to an input on the TV. What was happening was every now and then there would be an audible, but quiet, pop in sound, hard to notice, each time it happened the audio would slip a little, powering off the Sky box and back on and it was solved. Randomly one day I just went through the TV turning off stuff I wasnt using, Simplink was (HDMI control) was one of these features, couldnt believe it, it solved it. It must have been sending some sort of pulse every now and then.

Probably one of the most annoying issues ive ever had.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

Midnight_Voice — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:35:17 GMT

@davecm

Yes, our setups are very similar, my soundbar being the analogue of your receiver and carrying the BluRay, but as it only has the one input, my YouView box is plugged into the TV instead.

You might like to try, as an experiment, plugging your YouView box into the TV and then, with everything in standby, turning the YouView box on, see what happens.

I consider the BluRay player as operating correctly; if I switch the soundbar to HDMI, the player doesn’t come on unless I switch it on.

So I think that when I switch the YouView box on first, and it sends what I think is a broadcast (ID 15) CEC ‘turn on’, the TV gets it, and the soundbar gets it, and the BluRay gets it too.

A couple of things to know about CEC; it travels along the HDMI connections, and these are always available, even if the equipment they are in are not powered at all, and not even in standby. And the devices negotiate CEC IDs in the range 0-14 between themselves, so they can talk to each other individually, with 15 used for broadcast to all CEC devices in the network of HDMI connections.

Some clever logic is obviously stopping the broadcast signal getting to the other devices connected to the TV, or they are ignoring it, so it only goes out from the TV over the eARC cable; I don’t pretend to understand it all completely, though.

If I do switch the BluRay on, with everything else in standby, it fires up the soundbar in HDMI (In) mode, which in turn fires up the TV on the eARC HDMI connection, by dint of this also being the HDMI In from the soundbar, and I see the Bluray’s menu on the TV screen. This I think is the absolutely correct and expected behaviour.

So the culprit in all of this, and the only culprit I think, is some wrong CEC behaviour from the YouView box.

EE/BT might like to report this back to YouView for investigation, and, hopefully, correction, especially if the issue is present on the Pro boxes.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:47:44 GMT

I think in many cases that actually the source CEC triggering device may not be the one powering on the other devices, I mean that if you power on a device and it wakes the TV, the TV waking alone can trigger other devices attached to it to wake up, depending on the attached devices of course, some behave differently.

Surely though your setups are not similar, isnt the OP using an AVR where all his devices attach to that and then he has one uplink to the TV and they arent using eARC?

From an expected behaviour point of view I see the two setups as too different to compare. If OP connects the YouView to the TV then they will also need to enable ARC on the AVR and TV to use it that way unless by default its on.

That is of course unless I have entirely missed the point.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:32:41 GMT

Thank you all for your input. That gives me enough evidence that the BT box is not working as well as it should, and similar issues arise with a variety of setups and multiple users. I'll try initiating a BT tech support online chat and provide them with a link to this thread.

I'm guessing the HDMI-CEC and eARC functionality are determined by the hardware manufacturer Sagemcom, so any fix would probably need to be provided to BT by them rather than by Youview, for inclusion in a future firmware update.

I'm not holding my breath, but if you don't report issues they don't get fixed.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:49:09 GMT

Can you clear something up for me before I lose my mind 🙂

Youre not using eARC though right, your BT Box is connected to your AVR not your TV?

Im trying to figure out if I missed something here.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:58:27 GMT

All my sources are connected via HDMI to the receiver, which is connected to the TV by a single cable, via its eARC HDMI connector, to the corresponding connector on the receiver. The only source which misbehaves is the BT TV Pro box.

Nothing else is connected directly to the TV.

It's actually not the only issue with the BT TV box. It usually needs a reboot every couple of weeks, as sometimes there's no program guide. Sometimes the required device switching off sequence I described earlier doesn't work, and whatever I do on the TV or the receiver to select the TV box as the source, I can't.

Sometimes when playing back a recording, it just stops and reverts to the home screen. If I start playback again, sometimes it restarts from where I left off, and sometimes from the start of the recording.

Rebooting the TV box fixes any of these issues, until the next time,

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 11:07:04 GMT

This is what I mean....right, my bad, when I think of eARC I am thinking about the audio returning from your TV to your AVR, you are not using this function because audio is being hijacked by your AVR before it even gets to the TV and presented right away through your speakers.

eARC can also negotiate source switching to avoid the requirement for HDMI CEC but I'm not overly sure how that part of it would work with just the one uplink to the TV.

Just because the ports are labelled eARC doesnt mean much unless its enabled and in use, it just means those ports can do it. If it were me and considering you are not using audio return I would be disabling e/ARC where ever I found it to ensure its now screwing around with a signal chain that isnt actually using it, or just uplink your AVR to your TV into one of its normal HDMI ports, provided that port also has max bandwidth.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 11:17:29 GMT

The receiver, TV and other sources are connected exactly as per the receiver user guide.

Everything mostly works as expected, apart from when switching the BT box on or off.

I just had the promised online chat with BT tech support and sent them the link to the forum thread. They are apparently aware of this particular issue and are already working with Sagemcom to see if it can be resolved.

The fact that the online chat agent immediately knew what I was talking about was somewhat reassuring, so they must have had lots of queries about it.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

naylor2006 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 11:25:28 GMT

Yeah I get that but youre not using eARC anyway.

For example it would be for if you had your Bluray player and EE TV box connected to different HDMI sources on the TV directly, then the audio for those sources would pass back down the HDMI connected to the eARC ports and out the receiver's speakers.

In your case, you dont need to...your AVR likely will only have one output of course and it will be labelled eARC because it supports it:

This is the back of my AVR, under the white 'Monitor' port in small writing you can see 'eARC', its just to signify that port supports it, but its irrelevant as its not used and I dont need to worry about what port on the TV it connects to.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying you have connected things up wrong, I just mean I dont think you are actually using eARC at all and might as well disable it.

Anyway, good news, hopefully devs get it fixed.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 11:35:11 GMT

When I had the cabling installed in the wall, I had 2 HDMI cables to the TV, as at that time I didn't have the receiver, and only the original Humax BT TV box, and a DVD player, so I used both cables.
I can try connecting the BT Pro box to the spare cable instead of to the receiver.

If the result is positive and worth sharing, I'll post it here.

Re: BT TV Pro Box eARC source switching issues

davecm — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:47:09 GMT

I tried connecting BT TV Box directly to TV with the spare HDMI cable. So the original HDMI cable was still providing ARC between TV and the receiver as required for the other receiver connected sources.

The result initially looked positive. The on/off and source switching was more reliable, with none of the faff to ensure devices were switched off in the necessary order.

However, correct sound sync for the BT TV box could only be achieved via the TV speaker, and with the BT Box delay set to 0. If the sound output on the TV was set to receiver, then the sound sync was way off.

Fortunately there's tennis on TV all day today, so it was easy, but disappointing, to prove that none of the delay settings (from 0 to 240ms) on the BT TV box via receiver sound achieved anywhere close to correct sync when the racket hit the ball. 😂

The delay can also be adjusted on the TV and on the receiver, but both of those would affect all sources, so not an option.

Guess I'll continue to use the current turn-off sequence faff method and pray that BT come up with a better solution sometime.