This topic

Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 17:36:17 GMT

I have taken the Pro Box out of the cupboard to apply the latest update and have decided to leave it connected for some longer term testing and to see what new features (if any), drop with the EE TV launch.

I have always found the picture of broadcast channels on the Pro Box to be a bit soft, it certainly wasn’t as good as the Humax 4K predecessor, but today I set it to output at 1080p instead of 2160p, and find the standard pictures much better.

Clearly the box upscaling was adding to the softness that I was seeing (appreciate picture is subjective), but what surprised me is that even when set to 1080p, both the TNT Sport Ultimate channels display in UHD and UHD HDR respectively, without having to change a setting (a bonus in my view).

HLG HDR in iPlayer also displays correctly, as does Prime Video content, albeit only 1080p HDR.

Netflix however is limited to HD despite me having Netflix Premium. Switch back to UHD output on the box and 4K content in Netflix and Prime is available again

Anyone know why it is inconsistent?

I note that if I had VIP and didn’t have a Prime Video subscription then setting the box at 1080p would be a really consistent experience.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 22:09:51 GMT

@Anonymous

When playing with different resolutions on my DTR-T4000, I found that if I changed resolution from 4K to HD while using the BBC iPlayer, it continued to offer me the UHD versions of programmes that had this option.

But if I exited and re entered the BBC iPlayer while keeping the HD resolution, I was no longer offered the UHD versions.

From this I deduce that UHD/HD is decided on the initial login to the iPlayer, and the value is kept for the session.

So with the IPlayer offering UHD and the YouView box set to HD, it may be that the TV picture was the iPlayer UHD downscaled to HD by the YouView box and passed to the TV which then upscaled it back to UHD.

You’d think this would be easy to spot, but it isn’t.

So were those channels really displaying in the original UHD HDR, which would suggest that a YouView box set to 1080p was overriding that setting, or in the ‘upscaled downscaled’ UHD I was experiencing?

And does the inconsistency between apps stem from some of them checking the once, like the iPlayer, and some of them rechecking as the session went along?

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Oct 2023 08:41:07 GMT

@Midnight_Voice

The key for me here is the HDR flag (which pops up on the TV when an HDR source is supplied) and cross checking the output at each stage by going into the TV picture menu.

If I set output to 1080p then HD channels present in 1080p (I didn’t check SD but assume the box upscales to HD)
TNT Sport Ultimate (433) presents as UHD
TNT Sport Ultimate (465) presents as UHD HDR and triggers the HDR flag on the TV
MoTD on iPlayer presents in HD, Planet Earth 3 presents in HLG HDR and triggers that flag on the TV
Prime Video presents in HD HDR and triggers the HDR flag on the TV
Netflix presents in HD with Spatial Audio

I’ve been playing around with the settings quite a bit, including power cycles and iPlayer hasn’t changed the way it behaves on the Pro Box, it presents HD or HLG HDR as appropriate whatever the main output setting of the box.

As I said, this is a good thing in my book, I just wonder why Prime Video and Netflix are tied to the output setting but iPlayer and the Ultimate channels are not if you have the right subscription?

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Sun, 29 Oct 2023 09:15:09 GMT

@Anonymous

Just to say that I found out how to see what my LG TVs think they are being presented with (press the … button on the remote, select Information from the drop-down menu, and it appears in an overlay on the screen) and this confirms that for a DTR-T4000 at least, opening the BBC iPlayer in UHD and then dropping to 1080p on the YouView box has no effect on what the iPlayer offers you, but does make the TV see only 1080p. So the YouView box is not ignoring the drop to 1080p.

I can’t, of course, answer for what the Pro box does, nor for what special arrangement BT might have made for the THT Sport channels.

Sorry for the dreadful quality of the image, but the Community is holding me down to 333k.

Enough to show a UHD programme still being offered when the output resolution is 1080p, anyway.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Oct 2023 09:34:41 GMT

With the pro box in IP mode, that is probably the best end user experience, set to 1080p output for broadcast channels and the box allows apps and certain channels to flex automatically to the best quality available if it is higher than 1080p.

I just want to understand why Netflix and Prime Video won’t do that and need the main output set to UHD, when iPlayer and TNT Sport Ultimate don’t?

I also wanted to create the thread to feedback really, seeing as more direct routes like the YouView forum has gone and being part of the YouView pro box feedback group/ My View only seems to check what I watch, not necessarily how to improve the experience for all.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 22:20:24 GMT

@Anonymous

I just remembered the T4000 can’t do HDR, so I only see HDR from other devices, and apps directly on the TV 😢

I can’t find anything on the web about how apps negotiate resolution with the device they are running on. There’s plenty about how hardware devices negotiate with monitors - the EDID tables the monitors provide to say what they can do, which the sending devices then pick from, and so on.

So it looks like when the iPlayer asks the T4000 what it would like, it replies with the resolution it’s been set to, and maybe that it can do lower resolutions, and if the iPlayer asks ‘Nothing higher?’ then it says ‘Nope’.

(Even though you can fool the iPlayer into giving UHD to the YouView box set to 1080p, and the YouView box copes!)

But with the same dialogue with the Pro box, when the iPlayer says “Nothing higher?” the Pro box does say “Yes actually, UHD” and so is given that.

But when it’s Netflix asking, rather than the IPlayer, and the Pro box says “1080p”(and maybe lower), Netflix doesn’t ask “Nothing higher?”, it just says “OK then”, and delivers 1080p accordingly.

There’s a lot of supposition there, and not a little anthropomorphising, and it may be wildly wrong, but it does fit the observations to date.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

edbostan — Sat, 27 Jul 2024 13:43:59 GMT

My DT4000 box expired last week and a Pro box sent. I have it up and running set to 1080p resolution and I feel the picture is not so sharp as the DT4000 which died.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Sat, 27 Jul 2024 21:16:45 GMT

@edbostan

What model is the TV it is connected to?

Are there any other relevant changes, e.g. WiFi instead of Ethernet connection, or IP instead of broadcast channels, different HDMI cable, and so on?

What source material are you using for the comparison, and is this the same source you recall from the DTR-T4000?

Why only 1080p, and is this what you had the T4000 set to?

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

edbostan — Sun, 28 Jul 2024 15:04:24 GMT

I matched the setting with the DT4000 box and used the supplied cable and the previous HDMI cable. The television is a 12-year-old Panasonic non-4k.

Other posts have mentioned the picture being softer on the Pro box.

I can live with it but just an observation.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Sun, 28 Jul 2024 20:59:46 GMT

@edbostan

Yes, I’ve seen those reports, but I don’t have a Pro box to try.

Disappointing if so, because my DTR-T4000 is pin-sharp, and gives nothing away to any other source I have, except maybe the Apple TV.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Jul 2024 07:15:12 GMT

The soft picture from the Pro Box is the same regardless of whether you use IP or aerial, the TV you plug it into or the picture settings on the box.

The Humax T4000 was the pinnacle of YouView based hardware picture quality.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Jogon — Mon, 29 Jul 2024 22:21:02 GMT

I read ya thread and had my pro box at the max setting uhd50fps 10 bit
I adjusted it to 1080p and you are right the picture is sharper ...
I don't follow the box's logic but it works
Thanks

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Tue, 30 Jul 2024 08:06:21 GMT

@Jogon

Do you have a UHD TV, and were you watching an HD , or even lower resolution, signal on the Pro box?

In that case, what you might be seeing is your TV being better at upscaling than the Pro box is.

Although the difference is very slight, I judge my LG GX TV as being better at upscaling than my T4000, and so I used to run the box at 1080p when there was hardly any UHD to watch, though I do run it at 50/10 now there is more.

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Jogon — Tue, 30 Jul 2024 19:33:03 GMT

Using a Samsung QE55 qled 4k tv
Was on the highest pro box setting uhd50fps 10bit ... Picture wasn't as sharp as it is on 1080p
Maybe my old eyes lol
But it seems a better picture

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Midnight_Voice — Tue, 30 Jul 2024 20:43:37 GMT

@Jogon

Where was the source material on the box coming from, and what resolution was it?

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Jogon — Thu, 01 Aug 2024 21:34:56 GMT

I'm not that technical mate

The pro box is steaming/ non aerial

All I can say is turning down the box's picture to 1080p

Is better picture this way then on the higher option's

YouTube app adjusted back to the higher stream level is really good too

Not sure why but it works

Re: Trying to understand Pro Box picture settings

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Aug 2024 08:52:33 GMT

So that is where my analysis has got me to, having reset the box a number of times, used IP and aerial mode, trying different apps and channels at 1080p, 4K 8bit (the box default) and 4K 10bit.

Ultimately, the best normal linear channel viewing experience I can get (tested across an LG OLED and LCD TVs), is on 1080p and letting the TV upscale.

It reduces the softness that is present, particularly in IP mode, but means those that can watch Netflix in UHD HDR would be limited using the onboard app to HD and HD HDR for Prime Video.

The Apple TV+ app seems incapable of delivering anything in HDR, topping out at UHD. When you have watched the likes of Foundation and Silo in Dolby Vision, trust me when I tell you this is a significant compromise.

My conclusion is that those who are not fussed about picture quality so much, or don't have a UHD TV or just have a standard Netflix subscription, should just stick the box in 1080p for the best viewing experience.

If you do care about picture quality and/or have app subscriptions where you are paying for higher quality images and sound, then (a bit like Sky Q), you are best served just using the box in 1080p as an HD PVR and moving app viewing to a better device like an Apple TV 4K (excluding iPlayer) or a Chromecast.